[sunbug]

What a fascinating and compelling subject Norland!
When you mention Joseph Campbell choosing not to delve into this topic of UFOs, it makes me think of where you write:

“…whether physical objects or mental projections, the ambiguity and uncertainty speak to the mystery.”

Perhaps Campbell preferred not to address the subject because of that very “ambiguity!”

As you also write: “From a Jungian perspective, UFOs stand for a certain archetypal content that finds no expression within our accepted frameworks of explanation and world view.”

 

Campbell was looking at world traditions/religions and archetypal symbols and then on to space and science.

Both Religion/traditions

And Science have held perception of world views.

But Campbell would find no reference nor expect any reference to such a phenomena from a mythic tradition or religion. (Even though there are others who might— a whole other story)

And then Campbell would find “no proof” or exact validation from the science perspective either.

Even though Jung offers an interesting take, maybe Joseph Campbell is uncomfortable with this?   Because from Campbell’s view there are no primary religious or mythic symbols to make that connection OR to point to the phenomena as some kind of “rapture” of the mind, which one has been conditioned to believe in certain Holy Traditions.
It would be difficult to pinpoint the phenomena, because it is both concrete and not concrete.
Can Campbell point to UFOs as being a concretization of a transcendent metaphor? Not easy. Perhaps he thought of them as no more than hallucinations or people mistaking natural phenomena for something else.
And had no interest in digging deeper or seeing them as a “New Myth.”
If UFOs are both out of the realm of religion/science (meaning no direct verification) Then where would they belong in the Psyche?
Norland, what you and Jung muse upon as a metaphor suggests a collective pain in the psyche might birth such a phenomena of experience.
If one sticks with metaphors, then one can imagine that perhaps our psyche symbols are going through an alchemical change…

If the myths are presumed to keep up with the science of the times…the space exploration and thoughts of ETs or other extraterrestrial civilizations seems to be a possible  transformation of those old symbols.

Yet even with the long potential and excitement over a one day manned mission to Mars…

I think part of the break which is suggested between the lines of your essay and Jungs work:  is the need to still see our earth from the moon…and the care towards our home planet beset not just with pollution but also with the footprints of Nuclear War and War.

So is Jung pointing to the phenomena of UFOS as a kind of escapism as well?

Whether fair or foul? And the escapism is a break in the psyche?

Yet curiously he remains ambiguous too upon the subject.
Very interesting indeed!

 

 

[sunbug]

Just remembered: Joseph Campbell interestingly crossed over at the Fall threshold (well October.)

[sunbug]

Stephen, I do not mind your in depth addition at all!
I’ve thought a lot about that “suspension of disbelief” and being engaged in the acts of play which lead/become ritual/experience in relation to several of the recent myth blast authors over the months!

you write:Ritual takes many forms – but the point of ritual, at least according to Campbell, Eliade, and others, seems to be to open a portal and propel us past surface realities, into an experience of a deeper reality underlying the world we perceive with our senses. Ritual allows us an experience transcendent to, yet in harmony with, that of the physical senses. A living ritual has a numinous, dream-like, surreal component – that sense of participation mystique, as Campbell labels it, using a term borrowed from Levy-Bruhl. Ego breaks down, and one’s sense of self both dissolves, and expands beyond, individual identity.

That makes sense to me (both from reading Campbell and seeing this reminder!)

And there are different levels of ritual

Ex: for some looking for a sign or symbol maybe from a St.

Flowers is what they seek (specific related flowers)

But for others Prayers on behalf of those they care about is what they seek And they want deeper in…not so much flowers.

But Where I struggle is where both the “play” and the “deeper experience,” become overwhelmed with “details,” or argument of details…which seem much more in the realm of intellect but are perceived as highly necessary nuances in order to hear the story the Proper spiritual way. Meaning it can only be one way or only be understood deeply with the Right details.
It’s more of those challenges in communication and perspective.

It’s sort of fascinating and I choose respect and kindness…

But it’s hearing the perspective of this women’s movement within Catholicism. I’m sure Campbell would have been fascinated too!
If I mentioned matriarchal cultures it was immediately understood…

Yes: God as Mother.

Yet Mary:Mother of God cannot be a goddess nor have divinity because? It belittles her human act as a human woman? Saying a Yes…to carrying the son of god.

And I cannot claim to understand all the nuances myself of ones faith/theology.
It just felt confusing but perhaps because the divine feminine lost that raw perception and energy in more patriarchal cultures would be my guess so Mother can be an aspect of God and occasionally God can be she.
But Mary must remain human for her act to be powerful. I guess can see how that “plays” out. Yet she’s also honored among Women. So it’s emphasis on the humanistic part of the divine story even though the divine is playing through that. And maybe Mary is to humble to go round with titles….

When Campbell references “one’s sense of self dissolving and expanding beyond individual identity” that’s a place sometimes I want to challenge some Campbell perspectives…on a different board/subject…but rounding up into some contradictions…such as a sense of self dissolving does not necessarily keep an outside Guru or Gurus from projecting his/their sense of self on your  journey. Unless you are lucky and  it’s a teacher who cares and guides without needing control and encourages you to find your own way/path.
And the other conundrum: looking for the distinction between group/societal ideologies AND universal consciousness which seems to work on its own internal clock. And ? Being careful to not to mistake one for the other.
But my apologies to you and Kristina for this wander off subject.
Perhaps the wind and play of Fall will bring thoughts to a clearer threshold!!

 

 

[sunbug]

Thank you Kristina for both responses to my queries! I think with the first, the issue was about emphasizing the Human? Instead of the divine? I suppose the challenge for me was/is  the sense of the divine informing everything including the “human.”

Even though I sometimes become lost in details…was more ready to “shed the details,” like leaves to sense the heart of the matter…but if the details are what are important to someone else for the heart of the matter…it is what it is.

And I love your description of the shedding of the leaves during the autumnal equinox. Fall has always been my favorite time of year since a young child. The changing colors, the crisp wind and apples…the azure sky.
Fall always felt like any adventure could happen…I guess looking back it did feel like a time of birth or rebirth. A time for New things.
Even though Spring usually takes that title…

Fall held the potential of the unexpected and beautiful…a time to light the wood stove and make cheerful orange flames.
As you said the trees stand out in stark patterns when they lose their leaves. I’ve become mesmerized in the overlay of their dark and wooded webbing against an overcast sky and winter sun.
Or framing a sunset that would have been hidden by the leaves.

It’s funny you mentioned the trees shining after shedding their leaves…for I have seen not only snow but the years that brought ice storms…long before Elsa or Let it Go were a spark in the minds of young children.
The ice beautiful and deadly perhaps brought by the wintry queen herself herself.
Stark tree limbs encased in glass catching moon bows on a frosty clear night and shooting arrows of white radiance across a clearing.
The beauty only broken by the sharp crack of a heavy limb falling deep into the night.
Then the rise of the sun casting rainbows between every melting limb.
How could one not feel new beginnings? Even if the winter queen put one in their place after slipping and sitting oof! On an innocent looking patch of melting ice!
But yes Fall…a time of the hawks flying too. And meteors streaking bright in a cold dark night.

“See you at the threshold too!”

[sunbug]

I also would like to add a disclaimer to my statement query above:
I know that all those here (smile), know of those deeper threads and labyrinths of Godess/es…all those various phases of light and shadow…thanks not only to the Joe Campbell’s in the world but also to the researchers like you Kristina,  who carry on in their own unique ways about these same symbols and energies, which live in our psyches!
What a perfect time for this as unless I’m mistaken the Vernal Equinox was once considered both the New Year of the “Celts,” or “Gaels,” as well as the New Year of the Cherokee.
A time of gestation going into the darkness before returning to the light.
I do understand the deeper perception of “Goddess” and all She symbolically represents. Does not bother me at all!!  It’s just been an interesting navigation coming across different perceptions and all one can really do is be kind!
For after all the Root of the discussion is still there whether one says Woman or Goddess…since after all the topic is about the Divine Feminine!
The only thing I can imagine is that in my discussion it is the “humanness” which was perceived to make Mary’s Act as Woman (human Woman) to be so miraculous.
A lot of interesting navigation in the world!!  But if someone else knows more about that tradition because they have grown in it and spent a lifetime studying it…and being a part of it.
Then I just listen.

Briefly on to my other question speaking of the need for rituals.

Sometimes I wonder if some rituals are born more out of the head and intellect than the heart?
Or maybe it’s a balance of both?

Your ritual for your ancestors and your suggestion of ritual feels very heart based.

What brought the question up was memory of a dear friend “Clarice Bowman.” I’ve mentioned her elsewhere on other boards (so forgive me Stephen for my overlapping repetitions *wry grin*)

Clarice was the first woman Methodist Minister in NC. She was tall had a commanding presence but also a deep care and kindness. As a real little child she was so kind to me. Had to be in her seventies when my family knew her almost eighty. Beautiful woman.

Clarice had written books and pamphlets and also was well versed in Joe Campbell!
One paraphrase she said: “rituals are fine but do not become so worried with rituals that you cage yourself from God’s surprise.”

 

Or for this one could say Goddess’s surprise.

So wondered if you had any thoughts on that?

Personally I feel your rituals would do more “uncaging!”

Or you are talking of rituals which give peace and quiet and focus to the mind…

Thus freeing it from that chatter…so there is a chance to find quiet and reconnection!!

To be fair, Clarice could find ritual in the the simplest of moments:

“communion” by going to a favorite place to eat and sharing that with friends…

Or finding a place to park where there was a view of a NC lake and enjoying sharing that spot in company of dear friends.

That could be ritual for her!

Loved that!

Well enough,

In case any others wish to post here.

Thank you again for the essay and your thoughts on rituals at this turning of the seasons!!

 

[sunbug]

Kristina,

I love your quote above!

“Also, if we’re solely focused on the future, we forget our ancestors. And in our external busyness, it’s common to forget the threads from which we come from. I feel that we can only reclaim ourselves by also reclaiming and restoring the biographies of our ancestors. When we can lean back on them – the ground they paved for us and their strengths – we can move forward in life”

Have often thought with all the emphasis of being in the Present, which is important…there is still something to be said for all our “stories.”
Our stories as much as our existence radiate so much of who we are!
A reason too, I think so many are drawn to Campbell!! And mythology!

And love your ritual to your ancestors can relate to that celebration of honor to loved ones and those who came before! Beautiful!

Since I’m an unfortunate rambler just wanted to ask a couple of questions…

One in regards to the Goddess or Goddesses.
Because of (?semantics?) and perhaps “commercialization” of “the feminine image,” that for some the term has a shallow interpretation “goddess as pedestal object.” And it’s more of a male image of putting a woman on a pedestal where she has to live up to all these expectations. And the word Woman is sometimes  preferred to Goddess. This was in relation to a conversation I had about Mary in the Christian tradition with a Catholic friend. There is a strong women’s movement in part of the church now.
But it’s the idea that Mary as Woman saying “Yes,” is powerful.
But regardless of all the symbolism which reflects Goddesses before her…

To even see her in any metaphor including the word Goddess “objectifies her,” a patriarchal thing to do apparently. So that Mary as a Woman is making a powerful affirmative which echoes around the world. And an affirmative for all women.

Just curious if you had ever run into that kind of different perception??

 

[sunbug]

Talk about interweaving! Fraser’s Golden Bough, Turner’s painting (love that!  Eerie and luminous at once) And the lines from MacCauley’s poem!
Thank you for sharing that Mars!!

Thinking of Diana and the luminous moon which also has its shadow side..

How the rough craters loom into a new perspective with the help of refractor telescope a terrain of different stories…

New knowledge through measurements and precision…ongoing…

Yet I think there is still a wonder held in balance alongside all the acquired knowledge and knowledge yet to be…the discoveries waiting to be noticed…

Or gaining that horizon to see the earth from the moon.

My Mother taught astronomy and had the wonderful experience of teaching astronomy at Fernbank and seeing the Lunar Module through the big telescope in 1969…when NBC covered Apollo 11…(there again a metaphor Diana’s brother!)

Mother later had a small observatory and the people who saw sights through  that telescope said it blew their mind…

(The Messier objects, Nebulas and Galaxies as well as close ups of the Moon, Mars, Saturn and Jupiter.)

Some were inspired to a love of astronomy because of that.

It’s almost like having two experiences

Seeing the moon with all the new discoveries and studies that have unlocked the mysteries of old

AND imagining what it was like for the ancestors of the past to behold this bright yet shadowed orb shifting through its phases in the sky and an occasional eclipse.

Or to celebrate the landing of the parachuted Rover on Mars!

The unexpected comes in many forms.
And we all hope for that which brings positive ripples even if the journey brings a metaphoric unexpected key.

[sunbug]

Thank you Mars for that excellent reflection!
As I wrote the word play, that inseparableness of the three felt woven together! You are right!
I love your use of “mirroring,” to describe the mythic story…and “bridging the distance,” between the “teller/writer,” and “reader/listener…”

“Rendering one’s experience into another one’s.”

It gives the experience/story life and energy, which is shared or re-experienced in a new way across that bridge.
I have mostly experienced positive in occasionally referencing Campbell or myth in conversation…very much what you describe above as far as crossing the bridge…doable.

“Myths open us…they do not define us…”

That line sticks in my mind because of

also deducing a closing aspect in response to some “mythic communication.”
Mainly, I think due to Myth being perceived with a more shallow or general definition. (Old Made up Stories)

When you write of Occidental “civilization,” smothering all others narrowing the broad spectrum to a singularity of greed,” 

It is difficult not to imagine a lament for all those individuals (not ego-driven) hidden and buried under “the broad spectrum,”

Very little room for Thoreau’s living with the land…or John Denvers or  Mirabal the Taos Pueblo …or Jane Goodalls, or Judith Jameson (Alvin Ailey) following individual unique roads, which still reach out beyond themselves making that bridge to others not out of greed but a desire to experience/share something deeper.

It feels too easy to see ALL the negative aspect especially when grouped up but as you said it’s a small chapter.

A reform from within makes sense. But alas…human nature throughout history has a pattern of attachment to the Reform from without. And that has played out in myriads of ways and reflected in our stories and histories.
It will be interesting to see how it will go…within/without…

Then there are the myths and stories which throw in some odd tangent or unexpected path into the woods as an unexpected key to some puzzle or another. Just to confuse the trip planner…kidding.

I’m sure the poets would prefer one pebble in the water… and the ripple effect…but Campbell would probably say life is “Messy.”

I don’t blame you on that last summary paragraph. It is a cavern best observed at a distance… and threads perhaps best not followed…you have knowledge of them but also are aware of the tangles that might ensue…

good counsel.

 

 

[sunbug]

Thanks for the link Shaahayda!

That was great! Both Bradley Olson and Joe Campbell round up most of the thoughts bumping around in my psyche! Heh heh.

Brought back memories of listening to the Power of Myth too!

Myths open us…they do not define us.

Love that!

I want to be more succinct (good luck sun bug har har!)

There are many nuances to Campbell, much to ponder and reflect…and challenge…but I think there was always enough that resonated with me… and I still feel a jist of what he expressed.

My thoughts were on the sensitivities needed today even communicating about myth (not rebuttals-Stephen is right that’s a tangle of Ariadne’s thread best let be!)

But to the point: some would be offended to have their Religion or any “Main Religion”  Ever equated with myth.

I am thinking in terms of Semantics, but a serious take albeit with exceptions to the rule.
There is one Episcopal Preacher, who quotes Campbell all the time!

But it’s the idea that there is “Comparative Religion” (real belief systems)

And then there is “Mythology” and the Twain can never meet!!
But I imagine it’s based on a broadbrushed definition of Myth: made up stories usually Greek etc. 

When Campbell mentions
The Universal Aspect and the Local Aspect…that helped clarify my other thoughts.

The Eastern traditions seem to have a grasp on this…

But today because of cultural sensitivity Highly Understandable.

And because of Conquering/Colonization and other past sorrows…:(

Compassion must allow the Local view of various cultures the first respect and yield to it. Maybe there is a Universal view within a Local view….

But the point is that the stories of many cultures were written down from the outside-in…by “outsiders,” so NOW that communication is much broader each culture can tell their stories in their OWN way with their OWN voices…

I could see that being a challenge for Campbell…

Though interestingly, someone like Robert Mirabal because of travel also had a Campbell like perspective even though he also carried the traditions of his Pueblo culture.

Well it’s all interesting and maybe this time around I’ll close more succinctly!!

 

[sunbug]

Stephen what you wrote resonates exactly with all those thoughts rumbling in my head…

And so too Shaahayda…

That is it to a T!

And yes Stephen I’ve learned not to engage in rebuttals, which would be the equivalent of a tangle of Ariadne’s thread! Though if I allow enough time and space might be interesting to think on the Challenging Campbell aspect.
My ornithologist friend in Maine has the same love of a challenge and being surprised in his studies and even thrilled to be wrong because of discovery! (Just as you referenced Stephen) and you emphasized Shaahayda!

My gut pause was not so much on the opinion. We all have those…heh heh.
But what seemed to be a call for re-education or reform to dump the hero quest. When I would see it more to dump the “narcissist quest.” Understandable. Though there was also a take the “hero quest is a primarily European thing.” So yeah can definitely see the complication and reasoning there. Yet non-European indigenous cultures still have vision quests/walk abouts in their history.

And yes Stephen I do remember Campbell referencing in wonder how the hero became the “people” In Jewish history. I can relate vicariously having played the fiddler on the roof twice, which becomes a symbol for Anatevek sp? And the people in that town…

And Star Trek too…the Enterprise…the crew as the hero,…My mom loved Star Trek.
I think Kirk and Spock could also be like the Twin Quest of the Navajo…

Or the Fellowship in Lord of the Rings.
But kind of interesting too as that team comes more out of the forest…than the center. Up Campbell’s alley.

If you have ever seen the Star Trek remake from 2009…Kirk does have a moment where even though the trickster and troublemaker he has information no one is interested in hearing because he’s still smart and remembers what he hears…and that info is vital to keeping the team on the enterprise alive…then it moves back into everyone’s story. Spock…has his reckoning too. And the time element allows the original Leonard Nimoy to make a lovely cameo (if sad)

But away from that tangent…my take is that sometimes there is something in the collective human psyche that grasps onto “absolutes,” or “absolutism,” even without religion… absolutes, which often have very little to do with intuition or reason individual/team hero/heroine.

That is why I love Campbell’s view to surprise and my naturalist friend, Bernd Heinrich and Clarice Bowman who spoke of not caging oneself from God’s surprise!!

[sunbug]

”Myth Communicating” and “Myth Understanding”

So some apologies…the above was a little bit of a rant…grin…though there have been times, I have wished to challenge Campbell on some perspectives…just for fun/lively debate.

“Myth Communicating”  is about the challenge of talking about myths or from a mythic take to others with different life experiences.
I was thinking about kindness/etiquette and compassion. But can see that everyone here is very respectful so I’m talking to the choir.
The moments which have challenged me are when I’m expressing something from Campbell about various myths sometimes that goes well and other times I’m reminded it’s just someone’s opinion. So that’s interesting…
And I also sense especially because there are a lot of lonely people in the world some even without pets…they need an invisible “concrete” Presence to lean on for comfort. By whatever name Jesus…etc. And who am I to take away their comfort of spirit? What gives them hope for each day? (Understanding this is not the same as evangelizing/or crusading-what undoubtedly set Campbell and others away from their birth religions)

Everyone has his/her/their journey.
And I can no more put my face on them than they can on me.

The Other Challenge is what can be accepted as Myth?
Campbell made a stretch In Occidental Mythology because he crossed over into Mainstream religions of today. I thought nothing of it twenty years ago…understanding he was speaking of all the “Stories/Symbols/Psyche/Perspective,”through thousands of years in Mid and Near East.
Sometimes I think what is considered Myth is much more narrow today.
Everything from Sumer/Egypt/Greece and Rome/Vikings/Gaels can be considered Myth.
But Religions probably are retaining a not-myth status…as being Religions.
The East might be more open but not sure.

Then there is the whole other subject of the indigenous cultures around the world who now have the ability to tell their stories “in their own ways.” There has been some friction over those scholars more than just  Campbell who studied their cultures as “Outsiders,” for many the “Inside View,” was/is the most important because it’s their right to tell their own stories without any “white-eye” or “outsider,” interpretation. And I’m sure some would also argue “our stories aren’t myth”…except not all natives are traditionalists it’s a mix. But they are reclaiming their culture.
Wonder what Campbell would make of a book written by a modern indigenous person from their inner perspective?
(Understanding Native also means “modern,” not a relic of the past)

I’m sure it might be a challenging navigation but challenges can still be fun with a good mindset.

And then there are some who see the word “Goddess,” not in a metaphoric or empowering way but instead see it as a superficial description. That one surprised me…related to Mary in Catholic tradition…that the idea of her as a Goddess was to put her on a pedestal apparently a very patriarchal thing to do…where a woman has all this pressure to live up to some perfect ideal.
I never thought of it that way but always a different perspective out there chuckle.

Yet Mary still has a strong presence but more as a Woman. So definitely respect there. But it is her “Yes,” which makes her deed profound because it echoes around the world. And is positive for all women.
Because there is a strong women’s movement in the Church but not exactly as one might expect…heh heh.

So myth-navigation can be quite the journey!!! Since everyone has a different view! That’s life!

 

[sunbug]

My apologies Shaahayda,

Have been dealing with “stinging usurpers,” that have been buzzing inside my house…(hornets eee) another side of nature heh heh. Just a wee bit distracting…

BUT to get back to your other question about childhood…it’s hard to say.
I loved Mother’s paintings and loved colors (still do!—the green or autumn of a forest never ceases to amaze and inspire and mesmerize.)

But for me, memories and people are what held my attention the most.

As far as those traditional rituals, which surround someone as a child, I came to know them more through the people who spoke of them, such as the woman Methodist minister, Clarice Bowman, (who in fact was the one who introduced my Mom to the works of Joe Campbell!)

Clarice was a loving, strong, passionate person with infinite grace and presence, but was not strict or judgmental.
But she was passionate about fairness and justice in the world.
Unforgettable.

Yet I also sensed the stricter views, which surrounded her. She definitely challenged the grain!
Not easy, but she remained determined!

My tap mentor Beale Fletcher,  was a vaudevillian from back in the day. His wife Peggy was originally from Scotland. The two of them toured the country doing ballroom and a dance act together.
They were a huge call to adventure for me in the land of dance!  Again two unforgettable people!

And I think, it was only later when I discovered Campbell through the Power of Myth and reading the books, that THEN the symbols became keys to a new way of seeing! It definitely meant more to me!

I’m lucky to have friends of all different backgrounds from Methodist/Presbyterian to Catholic, Jewish and Buddhist and even one Cherokee Elder storyteller…. And friends with scientific backgrounds (Bernd-my naturalist friend in Maine)
So I love that!

Yet also realize there is so much I don’t know…each road can split off into several diverging views about one belief/philosophy. It can become so complicated… impossible to remember all the litanies of one perspective, that sometimes I long for the sacred non-judgemental simplicity that Clarice Bowman shared with my family and me. (Rounding down to love and caring about people.)

And I long for the Joe Campbell take.

I loved what Stephen wrote to you above. Perfect! He nailed it in my opinion! The Trickster energy!

If there was no harm/hurt caused to others and a joyous life has/is being lived (the yea! As Joe Campbell and Stephen are saying) then this “concretization” of what was or wasn’t true definitely seems the (trickster energy.)

And what a creative way of saying that Stephen! Love it! Does not pin down or judge the occurrence…

I sensed a potential “guilt/guilting issue”  but “Trickster” opens it up in a healthier way I think!

Ok…so one more thing, but more to do with “literalism,” than trickster…

I see a beautiful rainbow and see it at a time that symbolically means something to me.

Now I am a scientist’s daughter and know how a rainbow literally is formed but it does not take away the feeling of seeing the rainbow in that sacred moment.

Why should I tell anyone, who reads a personal, spiritual transcendence in a phenomenal event that they are wrong?      That the rainbow had nothing to do with them?  Or the butterfly had nothing to do with the soul of departed loved ones?

Experiencing a special personal meaning is not the same as forcing a “special meaning” on others.

(i.e. stricter religious/philosophical tenets ”Thou Shalt or else!” Or go to Hell!)

That’s why I love the Spell of the Sensuous! (Yes thanks Stephen too for the recommendation that Shaahayda passed on to me!)

 

 

 

[sunbug]

My apologies Shaahayda,

Have been dealing with “stinging usurpers,” that have been buzzing inside my house…(hornets eee) another side of nature heh heh. Just a wee bit distracting…

BUT to get back to your other question about childhood…it’s hard to say.
I loved Mother’s paintings and loved colors (still do!—the green or autumn of a forest never ceases to amaze and inspire and mesmerize.)

But for me, memories and people are what held my attention the most.

As far as those traditional rituals, which surround someone as a child, I came to know them more through the people who spoke of them, such as the woman Methodist minister, Clarice Bowman, (who in fact was the one who introduced my Mom to the works of Joe Campbell!)

Clarice was a loving, strong, passionate person with infinite grace and presence, but was not strict or judgmental.
But she was passionate about fairness and justice in the world.
Unforgettable.

Yet I also sensed the stricter views, which surrounded her. She definitely challenged the grain!
Not easy, but she remained determined!

My tap mentor Beale Fletcher,  was a vaudevillian from back in the day. His wife Peggy was originally from Scotland. The two of them toured the country doing ballroom and a dance act together.
They were a huge call to adventure for me in the land of dance!  Again two unforgettable people!

And I think, it was only later when I discovered Campbell through the Power of Myth and reading the books, that THEN the symbols became keys to a new way of seeing! It definitely meant more to me!

I’m lucky to have friends of all different backgrounds from Methodist/Presbyterian to Catholic, Jewish and Buddhist and even one Cherokee Elder storyteller…. And friends with scientific backgrounds (Bernd-my naturalist friend in Maine)
So I love that!

Yet also realize there is so much I don’t know…each road can split off into several diverging views about one belief/philosophy. It can become so complicated… impossible to remember all the litanies of one perspective, that sometimes I long for the sacred non-judgemental simplicity that Clarice Bowman shared with my family and me. (Rounding down to love and caring about people.)

And I long for the Joe Campbell take.

I loved what Stephen wrote to you above. Perfect! He nailed it in my opinion! The Trickster energy!

If there was no harm/hurt caused to others and a joyous life has/is being lived (the yea! As Joe Campbell and Stephen are saying) then this “concretization” of what was or wasn’t true definitely seems the (trickster energy.)

And what a creative way of saying that Stephen! Love it! Does not pin down or judge the occurrence…

I sensed a potential “guilt/guilting issue”  but “Trickster” opens it up in a healthier way I think!

Ok…so one more thing, but more to do with “literalism,” than trickster…

I see a beautiful rainbow and see it at a time that symbolically means something to me.

Now I am a scientist’s daughter and know how a rainbow literally is formed but it does not take away the feeling of seeing the rainbow in that sacred moment.

Why should I tell anyone, who reads a personal, spiritual transcendence in a phenomenal event that they are wrong?      That the rainbow had nothing to do with them?  Or the butterfly had nothing to do with the soul of departed loved ones?

Experiencing a special personal meaning is not the same as forcing a “special meaning” on others.

(i.e. stricter religious/philosophical tenets ”Thou Shalt or else!” Or go to Hell!)

That’s why I love the Spell of the Sensuous! (Yes thanks Stephen too for the recommendation that Shaahayda passed on to me!)

 

 

 

[sunbug]

The Joseph Campbell line “and where you thought to find an abomination, you will find a god,” reminds me of a Renoir Marie Rilke poem.

It begins “How should we forget the myths at the beginning of all peoples?

Perhaps all the dragons of our lives are princesses waiting to see us once beautiful and brave…”

It is right up Campbell’s alley but for the life of me cannot remember which translation or translator.

As for your symbol/moniker it recalls both the Third Eye (the opening of seeing) and the axis mundi…since you were inspired by the mountain you saw.
Goes along with Campbell’s take on Black Elk too. Or Egyptian connection (Ra/Eye of Horus) that’s up to you what resonates or is yet to resonate. That symbol has a lot of different perceptions.

Your experience of the lanterns in Norway is quite beautiful! How wonderful to see the lake revealed! Then there’s that water and subconscious metaphor too…but to me the poetry of it would be closer to the truth! And you described that beautifully!
It’s like David Abram in the marsh with the fireflies and stars suspended in that state of sensing the sensible!
Also Japanese lantern festivals setting the lights on the water

And Celtic Bonfires: cue Loreena McKennit. (Music)

I will stop this bit and come to childhood symbols in another.

[sunbug]

The Joseph Campbell line “and where you thought to find an abomination, you will find a god,” reminds me of a Renoir Marie Rilke poem.

It begins “How should we forget the myths at the beginning of all peoples?

Perhaps all the dragons of our lives are princesses waiting to see us once beautiful and brave…”

It is right up Campbell’s alley but for the life of me cannot remember which translation or translator.

As for your symbol/moniker it recalls both the Third Eye (the opening of seeing) and the axis mundi…since you were inspired by the mountain you saw.
Goes along with Campbell’s take on Black Elk too. Or Egyptian connection (Ra/Eye of Horus) that’s up to you what resonates or is yet to resonate. That symbol has a lot of different perceptions.

Your experience of the lanterns in Norway is quite beautiful! How wonderful to see the lake revealed! Then there’s that water and subconscious metaphor too…but to me the poetry of it would be closer to the truth! And you described that beautifully!
It’s like David Abram in the marsh with the fireflies and stars suspended in that state of sensing the sensible!
Also Japanese lantern festivals setting the lights on the water

And Celtic Bonfires: cue Loreena McKennit. (Music)

I will stop this bit and come to childhood symbols in another.

[Author]

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