Shaahayda Rizvi
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Thank you so much for this divine excerpt R³. Years ago, I came across this small hard-cover book at the Library of Congress in DC. The essay written by our JC, was a doozy. I read it over and over again and didn’t make much progress but left it to go back and read it. (As prophesied in The Poetic Edda,)
Excerpted from Joe’s Essay:
Comparing this remarkable genealogical fantasy with Berosso’s equally bizarre list of the years of reign of the antediluvian kings, and totaling the two, we find as follows:
Berossos Genesis 5 and 7.6
Antediluvian Years of Antediluvian Years tokings reign patriarchs begetting of sons
1. Aloros 36,000 Adam 130
2. Alaparos 10,800 Seth 105
3. Amelon 46,800 Enosh 90
4. Ammenon 43,200 Kenon 70
5. Megalaros 64,800 Mahalalel 65
6. Daonos 36,000 Jared 162
7. Eudorached 64,800 Enoch 65
8. Amempsinos 36,000 Methusela 187
9. Opartes 28,800 Lamech 182
10. Xisuthros 64,800 Noah, yrs. to flood: 600
[ = Ziusudra ] 432,000 1,656
Between the totals of Berrosos and the compilers of Genesis 5-7, there is apparently an irreconcilable difference. However, as demonstrated over a century ago in a paper, “The Dates of Genesis,” by the distinguished Jewish Assyriologist Julius Oppert, who in his day was know as the “Nestor of Assyriology,”(6) both totals carry 72 as a factor, this being the number of years required in the precession of the equinoxes for an advance of 1 degree along the zodiac. 432,000 divided by 72 = 6,000, while 1,656 divided by 72 = 23. So that the relationship is of 6,000 to 23. But in the Jewish calendar, one year is reckoned as of 365 days, which number in 23 years, plus the 5 leap-year days of that period, amounts to 8,400 days, or 1,200 seven-day weeks; which last sum, multiplied by 72, to find the number of seven-day weeks in 23 x 72 = 1,656 years, yields 1,200 x72 = 86,400, which is twice 43,200.”
In those days, the Library provided a cassette recorder and cassette tapes of Joe’s unheard (unknown to me) lectures. In one lecture Joe explains what Jung actually means by the term “collective conscious/unconscious” – Joe sayss that Jung means two different things when he refers to the term collective unconscious/conscious. Marianne is aware of this distinction. Would love for you (Marianne ) to elaborate upon this distinction, if you happen to see this.
Thank you
Shaheda
Thank you so much for this divine excerpt R³. Years ago, I came across this small hard-cover book at the Library of Congress in DC. The essay written by our JC, was a doozy. I read it over and over again and didn’t make much progress but left it to go back and read it. (As prophesied in The Poetic Edda,)
Excerpted from Joe’s Essay:
Comparing this remarkable genealogical fantasy with Berosso’s equally bizarre list of the years of reign of the antediluvian kings, and totaling the two, we find as follows:
Berossos Genesis 5 and 7.6
Antediluvian Years of Antediluvian Years tokings reign patriarchs begetting of sons
1. Aloros 36,000 Adam 130
2. Alaparos 10,800 Seth 105
3. Amelon 46,800 Enosh 90
4. Ammenon 43,200 Kenon 70
5. Megalaros 64,800 Mahalalel 65
6. Daonos 36,000 Jared 162
7. Eudorached 64,800 Enoch 65
8. Amempsinos 36,000 Methusela 187
9. Opartes 28,800 Lamech 182
10. Xisuthros 64,800 Noah, yrs. to flood: 600
[ = Ziusudra ] 432,000 1,656
Between the totals of Berrosos and the compilers of Genesis 5-7, there is apparently an irreconcilable difference. However, as demonstrated over a century ago in a paper, “The Dates of Genesis,” by the distinguished Jewish Assyriologist Julius Oppert, who in his day was know as the “Nestor of Assyriology,”(6) both totals carry 72 as a factor, this being the number of years required in the precession of the equinoxes for an advance of 1 degree along the zodiac. 432,000 divided by 72 = 6,000, while 1,656 divided by 72 = 23. So that the relationship is of 6,000 to 23. But in the Jewish calendar, one year is reckoned as of 365 days, which number in 23 years, plus the 5 leap-year days of that period, amounts to 8,400 days, or 1,200 seven-day weeks; which last sum, multiplied by 72, to find the number of seven-day weeks in 23 x 72 = 1,656 years, yields 1,200 x72 = 86,400, which is twice 43,200.”
In those days, the Library provided a cassette recorder and cassette tapes of Joe’s unheard (unknown to me) lectures. In one lecture Joe explains what Jung means by the term “collective conscious/collective unconscious” – That Jung meant two different things when he introduced the term. Marianne is aware of this distinction. Would love for you (Marianne ) to elaborate upon this distinction, if you happen to see this.
Thank you
Shaheda
Hello Sunbug
I just scrolled up and read your beautiful, poignant and thought provoking post on “Science and Horizon”. So, I have the answer to the question I asked above, that is, “You are a dancer, and honor scientists around the world, Jane Goodall, your mother, and many others, including the great Albert Einstein.
You wrote, “To Jane’s credit…I never felt she put herself on a scientific pedestal and I love that about her! I would hate to think of science just being a wise, “fact collecting factory,” which stores all its information and new found ore in the equivalent of a sacred dusty tome or bank under digital lock and lab key. And waits for the right time to reveal.” I hope so too Sunbug, and the data collection on topics that were found to be just amusing are actually being done in earnest, so as to understand that which science had shunned so long ago.
So I was sharing the data collection and factory part with Stephen on another thread. There are so many branches of science. Medicine, they say is not an exact science, it’s a trial and error, not so much the microbiology and virology part, but the getting to the root cause of illness, and the pharmacological element because ‘one size does not fit all’ whereas, a scientific experiment has to demonstrate the universality of the findings.
That said, in Medicine, there is immense interest in ‘life after death’ and is no longer that spooky world of ghosts and goblins. But to remove the stigma of spookiness, data has to be collected, sampled and verified. Your life was around an astronomer-mom, so you must know much more than what I am going to present here, nevertheless here I am.
From another post:
(Science presents us with a picture of a much more mechanical universe in which there is no absolute morality and man has no purpose and no personal responsibility except to his culture and his biology, wrote, Peter Brooke Fenwick a Neuropsychiatrist and Neurophysiologist who is also known for his studies of epilepsy and end-of-life phenomena.
His patients came to him with cases of NDE…. “How should I believe them when just a few years ago, my peers and I had put aside Dr. Raymond Moody’s ‘Life after Life’, as mere fiction?”
It’s a very difficult concept to believe in, you either have it or not, or you meet someone whose stories, although beyond-belief, draw you in. So faced by enough NDE cases, he filed for a grant to research core experiences of people with NDE . What he wanted to do was collect data, because faith is no longer sufficient in this day and age. Data on what causes NDEs. “We no longer live in an age when faith is sufficient; we demand data, and we are driven by data. And it is data that apparently throws some light on our current concepts of Heaven and Hell – that the near-death experience seems to offer.” (The Truth in the Light) Grant awarded, his research took a serious turn. He observed that NDE is caused by many types of serious illnesses, but what was common in those experiences was the brain-factor — the brain had stopped functioning, so he chose heart patients, who are kept alive while their brains are on a semi break.
The data collection began in an atmosphere of doubt. The Doctors termed it ‘mere hallucinations ’ because of drugs, but the nurses said, “NO, we believe the stories, there are so many now.” Power in numbers is what propelled this project. The outcome of his research, among other things is a book, “The Art of Dying”. His book looks at how other cultures have dealt with death and the dying process (The Tibetan “death system”, Swedenborg, etc.) and compares this with phenomena reported through his own recent scientific research. It explores the experiences of health care workers who are involved with EOL-care and who feel that they need a better understanding of the dying process.
A Nurse/Director of a Health Care Center in Canada, BC is reported to have said, “No one dies alone in my hospital.” Why, she was asked. Her response: On her first meeting with her hospice patients, she asks, “Who do you think will come to collect you?” “Just dwell on that. Sooner or later they give a name, say, “Meghan” or “Mary” or Fatima”. Then each morning she (the Nurse) asks them, “Did Meghan or Mary or Fatima visit you?” And if the answer is “No”, she says to keep on waiting. And one day, the answer is “Yes”, so she then says, “Next time Mary or Meghan come for you, go!” So, it’s generally a matter of a day or two when the patient passes peacefully.)
Before the pandemic, I planned to hike the Komanu-Kodo trails in Japan, and that was put to rest after the COVID restrictions. One Indian-American and part Japanese writer that I enjoy reading is Pico Iyer. Pico writes:
” In the wake of the tsunami in 2011, there was a rush on exorcisms as “hungry ghosts”—those abruptly taken from the earth without time to prepare for another world—were said to cluster around northern Japan, often speaking through the living, and unprepared priests were obliged to expel demons.”
“My old friend Bill Powers, from MIT’s Media Lab, was conducting a seminar near Kyoto in 2017 when the conversation turned to artificial intelligence. One of the high-level Japanese executives present—from a celebrated international communications company—said that the great blessing of artificial intelligence would be that it might allow us to converse more easily with the dead. “I’d never thought of it like that,” Bill said to me next day. “Which of us would? That cutting-edge technology might be not so much about surging into the future as more freely accessing the wise ghosts of the past?” Iyer, Pico. A Beginner’s Guide to Japan (p. 142). Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
Joe Campbell said something very similar, many many years ago, (though I do not recall where) that is, science and religion will come closer instead of moving apart?
Loved your prolific post to Craig Deninger
Shaahayda
“My Mother not only taught astronomy but also earth science and when I was real little, she would explain the difference between pinnate and palmate leaves…between maple leaves and oak leaves…rounded lobes white oak (or pin) or jagged lobes scarlet or black oak. And she showed me using crowns and tracing paper how to do leaf rubbings. Miss her.”
Sunbug, how blessed you are, a mother like yours, one who cared for the earth, taught astronomy and earth science, cared for you, showed you how to do leaf rubbings, and maybe lots more!! Such a Mother is a gift from the universe. I can’t imagine how very much she is missed, and to know that she is near you too, as you take care of the earth, ” and thank the universe for the gift of being in it and experiencing it.” You Sunbug, have a piece of heaven on earth — listening to the wind rustling in the trees, watching the stars at night, gazing at the full moon, the sound of the owl’s hoot, hawks, falcons and ravens, deer and bear. You are in a Shaman’s heaven, and perhaps a Shaman. I can imagine your dream world, rich with messages from your wild and heavenly neighbors. And a mountainous area too. Very late in life, which means just about now, I have come to appreciate and love all that you live and breathe and write about so beautifully and elegantly.
I live in a city of more than 3 million, and that is downtown Montreal, but fortunately the city has preserved and maintained its mountains, hills and valleys for nature lovers. So, I hike up Mont Royal, and on lucky days I meet my friends, many ducks, mallards, once in a while the white owl — hundreds of racoons at night, not my fav! They say you can spot a few foxes if you stroll through the forest after dark, but I have not done so, thus far. Ravens are a plenty, and I have made friends with some. They specially enjoyed potato chips but someone in my “FB crow and raven” group wrote that potatot chips are harmful to the ravens, because of the salt content. So, I stick to just unshelled peanuts. Thing is the squirrels don’t care for the chips, the sea gulls don’t either so that seemed like a good diet for them.
Oh what a beautiful life sunbug! In one thread, Stephen mentioned the book, “The Spell of the Sensuous” By David Abram. I bought it, and read a few pages every day. David’s words have made me more mindful of the forest trees, to the whisper of the wind, to the snails on my path. Here is an excerpt from the chapter “The Inner Landscape”:—-
“Of course, it is not only when speaking of other animals that one must be mindful, but also when alluding to the forest trees, to the rivers, even to the winds and the weather. Nelson, stung by the winter cold, reminds himself of the Koyukon elders’ advice “about accepting the weather as it comes and avoiding remarks that might offend it. This is especially true of cold, which has great power and is easily provoked to numbing fits of temper.”35 All things can hear and understand our speaking, for all things are capable of speech. Even the crackling sounds made by the new ice on the lakes are a kind of earthly utterance, laden with meaning:
In falltime you’ll hear the lakes make loud, cracking noises after they freeze. It means they’re asking for snow to cover them up, to protect them from the cold….”
Abram, David. The Spell of the Sensuous (p. 152 – 153).
And you are already living in the sacred space, in peace with your environment, writing beautiful prose and poetry. By the way, are you also an astronomer, an earth scientist, a zoologist, a botanist or some other environmental specialist?
Shaahayda
Continued:
So Peter Fenwick wrote, “And it is data that apparently throws some light on our current concepts of Heaven and Hell – that the near-death experience seems to offer.” (The Truth in the Light – Peter Fenwick).
Such themes of science inching closer to shed its light on traditions, so called superstitions, omens, beliefs, hallucinations, and as you well put, ” something, though I know not what, does survive beyond the body” was also put to test in Japan in 2017.
“My old friend Bill Powers, from MIT’s Media Lab, was conducting a seminar near Kyoto in 2017 when the conversation turned to artificial intelligence. One of the high-level Japanese executives present—from a celebrated international communications company—said that the great blessing of artificial intelligence would be that it might allow us to converse more easily with the dead. “I’d never thought of it like that,” Bill said to me next day. “Which of us would? That cutting-edge technology might be not so much about surging into the future as more freely accessing the wise ghosts of the past?” Iyer, Pico. A Beginner’s Guide to Japan (p. 142). Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
As I recall, Stephen, Did not Joe Campbell say something very similar, many many years ago, (though I do not recall where) that is, science and religion will come closer instead of moving apart?
Shaahayda
Hello Stephen,
I am fascinated by your experience with rebirthing. I did a bit of reading on the subject, and am thinking of going in for a session or two. They say the rebirthing breathwork works better than talking therapies because it actually clears trauma from the body. After the second Pfizer dose, I have been experiencing very low energy, and it says with the rebirthing technique “one can expect to experience an expanded state of consciousness – experiencing the unlimited you – and feeling more spiritually connected.” You Stephen, have been spiritually connected for as long as I have known you.
“However, definitely leaves me inclined to believe that something, though I know not what, does survive beyond the body, even if that is just individual consciousness being re-absorbed by a more universal Consciousness.”
I am going to begin where you stopped.
“Death is an expansion of consciousness”, wrote Peter Fenwick, having been a disbeliever for years and years after Raymond Moody’s book, “Life after Life” came out. After his transformation, he had this to say: “Science presents us with a picture of a much more mechanical universe in which there is no absolute morality and man has no purpose and no personal responsibility except to his culture and his biology” Peter Fenwick, a Neuropsychiatrist and Neurophysiologist is also known for his studies of epilepsy and end-of-life phenomena.
Peter’s patients came to him with cases of NDE….”How should I believe them when just a few years ago, my peers and I had put aside Dr. Raymond Moody’s ‘Life after Life’, as mere fiction?”
It’s a very difficult concept to believe in, you either have it or not, or you meet someone whose stories, although beyond-belief, draw you in. So faced by enough NDE cases, he filed for a grant to research core experiences of people with NDE . What he wanted to do was collect data, because faith is no longer sufficient in this day and age. Data on what causes NDEs. “And it is data that apparently throws some light on our current concepts of Heaven and Hell – that the near-death experience seems to offer.” (The Truth in the Light – Peter Fenwick)
Grant awarded, his research took a serious turn. He observed that NDE is caused by many types of serious illnesses, but what was common in those experiences was the brain that had stopped functioning. Heart attack patients, made the best candidates for his research because they were kept alive while their brains were on a semi break.
The data collection began in an atmosphere of doubt. The Doctors termed it ‘mere hallucinations ’ because of drugs, but the nurses said, “NO, we believe the stories, there are so many now.” Power in numbers is what propelled this project. The outcome of his research, among other things is a book, “The Art of Dying”. This book looks at how other cultures have dealt with death and the dying process (The Tibetan “death system”, Swedenborg, etc.) and compares this with phenomena reported through his own scientific research. It explores the experiences of health care workers who are involved with EOL-care and who feel that they need a better understanding of the dying process.
A Nurse/Director of a Health Care Center in Canada, BC is reported to have said, “No one dies alone in my hospital.” Why, she was asked. Her response: On her first meeting with her hospice patients, she asks, “Who do you think will come to collect you?” “Just dwell on that. ” Sooner or later they give a name, say, “Meghan” or “Mary” or Fatima”. Then each morning she (the Nurse) asks them, “Did Meghan or Mary or Fatima visit you?” And if the answer is “No”, she says to keep on waiting. And one day, the answer is “Yes”, so she then says, “Next time Mary or Meghan come for you, go!” So, it’s generally a matter of a day or two when the patient passes peacefully.
Another great book on Dying is by Monika Renz, a Swiss Psychiatrist. “Renz divides dying into three parts: pre-transition, transition, and post-transition. As we die, all egoism and ego-centered perception fall away, bringing us to another state of consciousness, a different register of sensitivity, and an alternative dimension of spiritual connectedness. As patients pass through these stages, they offer nonverbal signals that indicate their gradual withdrawal from everyday consciousness. This transformation explains why emotional and spiritual issues become enhanced during the dying process. Relatives and practitioners are often deeply impressed and feel a sense of awe. Fear and struggle shift to trust and peace; denial melts into acceptance. At first, family problems and the need for reconciliation are urgent, but gradually these concerns fade. By delineating these processes, Renz helps practitioners grow more cognizant of the changing emotions and symptoms of the patients under their care, enabling them to respond with the utmost respect for their patients’ dignity.” She tells her patients, or the relatives of those dying, “Be Curious” Among her patients, the group that was curious had a fascinating and creative end of life experience.
In all of this I observe that Medical Science has enabled the validation of the very event that its members once doubted.
Shaahayda
Thank you dear sunbug for sharing the link and for sharing your knowledge of PBS series on Nature. I love those programs too. Loved Rudy Mancke’s wild America. PBS Vermont offers a program on Nature every Thursday.
“And Bernd Heinrich (ornithologist/naturalist) in Vermont/Maine is another one still finding truth, beauty and adventure studying/living with the natural world.” My love of nature is recent but the experience has touched me most deeply. One of the loveliest days in my life was when a large white owl crossed my path, while hiking. And the same week, a golden eagle right over head — that beauty which they say generally is not seen on Mont Royal.
Would love to hear more from you on the subject.
Shaheda
Stephen
Thank you for sharing your beautiful journey. I want to share a semi-good response, as you well know that these stories are very close to my heart. I’ll be back.
Till Then.
Shaahayda (so very grateful)
Hello Stephen,
Thank you for such a beautiful post that wraps the personal myth, the dream world, your personal dream, and your understanding of your dreams as they unfold and help you resolve a personal crisis.
“…. Certainly this dream series addresses the personal level Campbell mentions to Moyers in The Power of Myth (e.g. “Will I marry this girl?”); nevertheless, the archetypal level is represented as well. Notice how mythological themes play through the dreams, and how, though details of an image may differ from dream to dream – depending on what is being emphasized – the underlying motif remains in play: the snarling Doberman, the aloof timber wolf, and the playful golden puppy are all different inflections of the same archetypal pattern (Cerberus/Anubis; dog as psychopomp or guide of souls, etc.); similarly, the warehouse, the subway, and the storm drain all suggest the Underworld …”
Your dream images followed by your interpretation, both at personal level and at the mythological level helped me sort out my dream world and dreams that I had two nights ago. Your personal interaction with the Doberman, the silver wolf – a creature or I should say creatures, more in tune with nature were present in my dream too. While the silver wolf chased me in an underground tunnel, and I found myself running at super speed, and as the scene changed, the world outside became immensely peaceful with other nature birds flying overhead. There was a gorgeous bald eagle circling overhead, the sky was a beautiful blue, and just below the bald eagle was a golden eagle, also in flight. My conscious and the unconscious are not in sync, I thought. The underworld is scary, and I seem to be running away from something but the outer world promises peace, strength, security. So, I am hoping to do some AI work tonight and incubate another dream. “Dreams are indeed the royal road into the unconscious” And, they speak to us of our private myths.
“To know that you are a sparrow and not a swan; or, on the contrary, a swan and not a sparrow…gives a great security, stability and quality of harmony and peace to the psyche,” Joseph Campbell wrote in Kyoto in 1955, drafting a convocation address for his students back at Sarah Lawrence.“Iyer, Pico. A Beginner’s Guide to Japan (p. 90).
With much gratitude for sharing your personal myths and personal dreams here and of course, always in such a poetic manner.
Shaheda
Hello All,
Such an interesting topic and I am hoping we’ll have this thread alive for a while. So, here is one angle of personal mythology (PM) that has me puzzled.
Beginner’s guide to Japan”, By Pico Iyer- Pg. 101: Here Iyer quotes Joe Campbell and leads the readers into a unique Japanese trait, pointing to the lack of “I”, “Me”, “My”. “For a Westerner Joe Campbell noted in Japan, meditation may awaken a sense of divinity within; for a Japanese, it’s more likely to inspire a sense of divinity inside a temple, a flower, a gnat. The person sitting still doesn’t say “I’m awake”. She says, “The world is illuminated! ”
Similarly, in some parts of the Indian subcontinent, the “I”, the “Me”, is totally secondary to the needs of the parents, and parents’ needs within their community.
Pico adds, Japan’s foundational novel, The Tale of Genji, is notoriously hard to translate, because proper names are sometimes hard to translate, avoided….As the scholar of Japan, Ivan Morris notes, ‘the hard and fast rules we like to maintain between past present singular plural, male female — don’t apply.” “Beginner’s guide to Japan”, By Pico Iyer- Pg. 104:
“In Japan, there are twenty ways of saying “I”…women are expected to refer to themselves in the third person, men not.” Pg. 104.
“My sense” is that the personal myths of women growing up in Japan have got to be on a different track than for women growing up in a Western culture. Hampered? psychologically blocked? How different is their archetypal energy and their sense of individuation from their Western counterpart?
“In meditating, meditate on your own divinity. The goal of life is to be a vehicle for something higher. Keep your eyes up there between the world of opposites watching your ‘play’ in the world. Let the world be as it is and learn to rock with the waves”
— Joseph Campbell
Joseph Campbell Companion, A (p. 189)
Find more quotations at www.jcf.org/quotesShaahayda
Hello Larry,
your point, “The metaphor of Medusa turning to stone those who seek inner wisdom is, in my opinion, both valid and universal.”
As I understand (Please correct me if I am wrong) Prof. Peterson’s point is that in dealing with Athena (seeking inner wisdom) Reflection is one thing that will let you bypass Medusa otherwise Medusa will be there along with Athena, all the time. My sense, maybe subjective, that interacting with Athena, I am able to skip Medusa when the subject is not entirely personal. It’s the personal element that has the capacity to stonewall one.
Shaheda
Hello Mark,
Fascinating and such a thought provoking topic – Athena, Medusa, Reflection, Wisdom and Stoned.
You wrote, “And suddenly, Athena made sense to me. Wisdom, which (for Socrates, at any rate) means recognizing your own ignorance, must only be approached after careful reflection. If you confront it directly, you’ll be immobilized?”
Metaphor of being stoned to me is also when one’s heart grows cold, like Scrooge, unable to feel the pain of the other. Four visits from the ghost of Christmas’ past compelled him to reflect upon his darkness and walk out of it. In this case, reflection was the saving grace.
But there is no immobility when we approach wisdom to simply philosophize, ask questions about life and death, seek wisdom on subjects that elude us. Dwelling upon death so as to approach it wisely does not immobilize me, it clears the fog, it demystifies the mystery, it eases any unnecessary anxiety around the issue. The immobilization is in facing our betrayals and wondering without reflection on our blindness.
So, am I right in saying that at times I have been stoned by Medusa (without reflection) and at other times, it’s just a play with Athena, without encountering Medusa?
Shaheda
Hello Dr. Slattery,
So very grateful for your responses. Yes indeed I received your response on the personal messenger. My only reason for not responding right away was my fear of taking up your time. Meanwhile, I have been visiting your website and your blog, reading your analysis of various books. All are immensely rich in thought and ideas, but the one that has drawn my attention the most, is Susan Griffin’s “Pornography and Silence”.
Dennis, you wrote, “The pornographic imagination seems to seek a number of common goals: turn the other into something less-than-human; dominate that other, be it an individual, a race, an ethnic group, or those who disagree with you.”
This is such an enormous topic and very little attention has been assigned to it, or maybe it has been, I happened not to notice it. You expressed it so eloquently, “What is just below the skin of pornography is lust: a lust for power, for control and for accumulating wealth at the expense of others’ well-being.”
It’s been the less-than-human side that has been winning thus far, because the side that’s been experimented upon must want nothing but a place to hide away?
Thank you Dennis for opening such an immense topic. I’ll definitely be getting Susan Griffin’s “Pornography and Silence”.
I have often wondered if Maya Angelou was drawing our attention to just that, in her poem, “Still I Rise”, that is “Pornography” and the plight of the African American Woman.
“You may write me down in history
With your bitter, twisted lies,
You may trod me in the very dirt
But still, like dust, I’ll rise.
Does my sassiness upset you?
Why are you beset with gloom?
’Cause I walk like I’ve got oil wells
Pumping in my living room.”
Shaheda (with immense gratitude)
Thank you James, Just listened to Campbell’s “symbolic realization” mp3 — The night sea journey. Awesome of course. “Don’t become concretely fixed in a symbolic situation.”
Hello James,
So kind and thoughtful of you to write back with your thoughts on the subject of childhood symbols.
“Now if I understand this correctly his “Red Book” was what came out of this process. Joseph also commented several times: (via your childhood games reference); that he would move big rocks around; (the creation of his home: “Bollingen”);
Yes, he mentions Jung’s reinvention of his childhood symbols in several works. He reinvented his symbols by building his own house in Bollingen…which led to fascinating dreams that resulted in the “Red Book”, and also friends and scholars came into his life. Lynn also posted a link to Campbell’s lecture on “personal myth”. There too, he goes into the importance of childhood symbols and dreams.
On dreams, he talks about Freud’s interpretation of dreams. I found this very interesting especially the way Joe phrased that. He says, when Freud interprets the symbols in terms of the inspiration and zeal from the lower end of our biology (waist down) instead of the neck up, he has misunderstood the whole thing. Since the whole sense of the mythic imagery is to pitch you in the the spiritual realm but Freud’s interpretation pulls you down, deflates and breaks the symbol.
Thank you also for this wonderful reminder of ” “Modern Myths of Quest” – Lecture: II.I.6 of: “Symbolic Realization”; which he talks about integration within the Individuation process of going down into your inner world ” . I’ll definitely look into that lecture too.
I just read something similar, ” The first thing I’d do would be to think, “What are, specifically, the symbols that are still active, still touching me this way?” What are the symbols? There’s a great context of symbols in the world. Not all of them are the ones that afflict you. When you do find the symbol that is blocking you, find some mode of thinking and experience that matches in its importance for you what the symbol meant. You cannot get rid of a sym-bol if you haven’t found that to which it refers.” (The Collected Works of Joseph Campbell Book 2)
“When the symbols are interpreted spiritually rather than concretely, then they yield the revelation.”
Also James, Thank you for mentioning Dennis’ works. I have visited his website and blog, and feasted on some very precious writings there. With reference to personal myths, he cited Joe Campbell, “Joseph Campbell believes that myths reveal the movement of psyche, indeed “of the whole nature of man and his destiny” (Flight,35)
So thank you James, and I shall definitely revisit the Modern Myths of Quest and the Flight of the Wild Gander.
Shaheda
