Marianne
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That is so exciting that JCF is putting together The Way of the Animal Powers.
From what I recall, The Way of the Animal Powers was also available as Vol. 1 in The Atlas of World Mythology volume series. I did not see on your photo here of the cover a “Vol. 1.”
The other book you are looking for, The Language of the Goddess by Gimbutas, is now available on Amazon and in several other online bookstores, as well as some of her other books on goddesses and goddess culture. I hope you can find the download in the server, Stephen–I missed that one!
Dear Shaheda,
Like Stephen, I am sorry for my delay in responding to your note. I have not been into the forum for a couple weeks now due to moving and encountering some complexities with the move. I felt that if I were to come here into the forum that I would not be able to focus on the posts enough to do them the justice they deserve; thus, I had no idea you had written back to me within that time until I finally checked my personal email and saw the notification that you had responded to me. It is so very nice to encounter you again–I have always enjoyed our discussions.
I am glad to hear you are doing “normal” to a good extent during this pandemic. It sounds so nice to have a mountain to hike! It has been overall normal for me, except for not being able to see my mom and aunt in the nursing home; as a result of them not being in touch with their people, they are both losing their bearings of memories of who is who and other things. At first it was mostly short-term memory, but now it seems to be extending to long-term memory. I also do not see my daughter and granddaughter as much as I would like to and it gets, as many people are experiencing, heart-wrenchingly difficult not to get close or hug them. Like many people, I limit my time shopping (unless online) to only the utmost necessities. I walk the beach along various shores of the lake here and walk some of the paths in the nature reserves here–no mountains here, though!
Thank you for the suggestion of the Irish poet, John O’ Donohue. Lately I have focussed on some Native American myths and folklore, with some focus on Campbell’s The Flight of the Wild Gander.
On your question of how the pandemic has played into my life work:
I have been unemployed due to the pandemic. When schools closed, I lost my M-F school job. When libraries closed, I lost my part-time library job. For a while I was getting a lot of writing done, then an opportunity for a new home suddenly arose, so I have not been writing hardly at all for the past few weeks due to that. As you know, I have been wanting a bigger place for over two years now since I can barely spread out more than one book at a time in my closet-sized office. Now I have a large office with also my piano in it and feel so blessed in that regard.
I hope all your family members have stayed safe and unaffected. I know several people who have had corona and one friend is recovering now. Another friend tested positive for the antibodies and is awaiting his covid test. We have had two scares with family members being exposed to corona, one of them via work where there was an outbreak in a nursing home–then my daughter tested negative so I was able to see her and my granddaughter for my granddaughter’s birthday–from a safe distance, of course!
My biggest hope right now is that people in general stay safe and that children can stay safe with the schools opening–I find that a bit nerve-wracking.
With Much Love to You Too, and Wishing the Best to All in the Forum,
Mary Ann
Hi, All,
James, I love your question, “One might ask: “What is identifiable that evokes the best in human nature whether it be a god or a human being? What is this quality in the Hero; whether mortal or god that makes this timeless symbol so important? And why is this quality also universal? What does it mean to be heroic?” At this moment I am thinking of many of my favorite myths and about the various traits of the heroes in each myth, such as the Greek myth of the 12 Labors of Heracles or Beowulf. Both of them had remarkable strength that was rather miraculous. Sometimes such as in The Lord of the Rings it is an inner spiritual of psychic (psyche) strength or integrity that Frodo has to overcome the powerful spell of the ring that usually brings out people’s inner ugly greed. For his travel companion and helper Sam (Samwise) it is his wisdom in his supportive role, and both have stamina. SInce the hero is always the protagonist, he has something good about him that serves good for the good of all; Gollum, an antagonist, antagonizes the protagonist and is the opposite trouble or evil. The hero transcends when after his departure on his hero’s journey he reaches the desired place to receive the boon to bring back to humankind/his or her people./society, whether freedom (slaying the dragon) or bringing fire from heaven to earth. His journey brings him the view from above the two places, the here and the there, and bridges them in transcendence, is one of my definitions, yet I consider both the traditional definitions of transcendence from Wilhelm’s translation of the I Ching and then Jung’s too.
Link to “Hexogram 20: Contemplation/View,” from Wilhelm’s Translation of the I Ching:
As I read this, I think of Beowulf being the guest of the king to save people from Grendel, and then I think of Froto and Sam up on the mountain to throw the ring in the volcano and the evil eye on top of the mountain that gets destroyed when the ring gets thrown in the pit and destroyed. “Full of trust they look up to him:” the hero is one who helps the people and so the come to trust him, even after many power struggles with those who would not believe in the hero’s abilities and try to downplay him or her–the role of a tale’s antagonist(s). I could go on and on looking at the hero from the considerations of this hexogram. One point that really intrigues me about this in accord with transcendance is that the contemplation is done from a tower that gives the hero (or wise man–for one can be a hero whether going though the path of the hero (not hidden) or that of the sage (hidden and working behind the scenes, yet each would have both qualities in the other) a wide view–and “trans” means across and not just up. Before I ever read the I Ching or Jung, I did meditation (Transcendental Meditation for one) and later I encountered the I CHing and took up karate so was into zen and zen meditation, and so initially I thought of transcendence as “up” as in transcending the cares of the day, of stress, of rising above. I was a young teenager at that time (my parents were TM’ers and when I was 14 they took me to meetings and had me initiated and given my mantra, etc.) Then later I found the I Ching and this tower of contemplation as a bridge stretching from one horizon to the next giving not just height but width or breadth. Then a bit later I began reading Jung and his writings on transcendence. I will post a definition (a long one) below.
Anyway, the question of what makes a hero a hero set my mind spinning to a bunch of my favorite heroes and heroines from myth in the classical and non-classical mythologies, to myth in film and in literature. What I found intriguing and fun about trying to answer this question is that is made me examine as many virtues as I could think of. And that is the one thing I think all heroes have in common: virtue. However, in “real” life, and I think this is also somewhere in the I Ching but I cannot think of which hexogram at this moment, “honor exists even among thieves,” so in real life, a thief could have a thief for a hero, so then there goes the virtue–unless you are Robin Hood.
Thank you James for sending my mind on a fun journey this evening through some beloved stories. I do believe the qualities of the hero are still living myths today in the legends we have of great people who have served humanity in one way or another whether politically or medically or virtuous police people (as opposed to the non-virtuous) and firefighters, etc. As for firefighters, we often don’t have a story though without the antagonist arsonist. So what makes for the anti-hero or antagonist? What qualities do they have that make them the people we “love to hate?” Please excuse the strong word “hate”–I am using it on purpose as strictly as the expression with which we are all familiar.
Hi Joanna,
Can you also write to us more about Odin as breath? I really loved your beautiful post and your sentiments. I do wish we in America were being more kind to one another and respectful. It is so refreshing to read your post about how different it is in Germany. I do wonder if more of Europe is like that or mostly Germany due to its Odin deity. I am also wondering if you could tell us a bit about how prevalent the recognition of Odin is today in Germany whether in the collective unconscious (or archetypal psyche) or consciousness and if no longer religious then how common in the folklore?
I have spent the last three days being very sad about this mask situation and people who will not wear them and how the people who do not want to wear masks treat the people that do want to wear masks. I also see a lot of deceptive behavior and people even breaking off their relationships because they are fighting over wearing masks or not or one person feels the other person isn’t protecting them and thinking of the “other.” Jung did say that in humans there are two basic instincts: the will to live and the will to die. I can understand that a body that is old and weary will feel its death instinct and be ready to die in its own time, but I also now see with the corona virus presenting itself (and also have for years in the lack of regard for the health of our environment) see people behaving as though they really want to die or want to kill humanity. It perhaps is disguised as denial, or defiance, but it is foolish to laugh in the face of death–unless someone just really doesn’t care and is suicidal. I think that some people are just so mad about losing what they feel is their freedom that they just want to kill people with their breath. I know how horrible it sounds, but it’s like the mythic “kiss of death” though the “mist of breath.” Or, “kiss of breath.”
Hi Richard,
I appreciate your thought-provoking post!
I think that in the photo “Earthrise” as earth is seen from space, there is finally the idea of things being “one” and less opposites for the new myth. However, people are often also slow to change and do not give up their ways of seeing too readily. Perhaps the oneness could be absorbed into only those individuals who were ready.
I really enjoyed your post. While I would like to think I can see things as one, I do still see in dualities every day with the sunrise and the sunset, with the dark of night or the light of day, with the moon out either full or new, with the season hot or cold (of course there are those degrees in between) and to a point I do see this as inherent dualities on earth, yet see them at the same time as the yin and yang in the circle separated by the wave in the middle meaning that they flow into one another and the opposite color of the dot inside each half-circle of the light or the dark or the one inside the other. For me, I find the contrast of dualities things that beautiful poetry or shadowplay in films are made of; yet if that is all we see and do not see they are part of the circle of continuum that then it is indeed oppressive. I find lines or curves of division beautiful in a painting, for example. One quality of Air is its discernment or division as in the ancient 4 airts or the 4 winds of the 4 directions. The compass halves the circle and then quarters it and goes even further to make the 4 more minor directions of NE, SE, SW, and NE.
Just musings here, free-associating in this moment.
In a way too it seems to me almost like the dots within the semi-circles of the yin and yang suggest some of that enantiodromia of which James speaks of.
Hi Robert, I like your associative leap to the Mothers and the Black Madonna to Black Lives Matter.
–Mary Ann
Thank you Pilgrim1 and Stephen for posting the quote and referring to it here. I am going to go search for the quote now.
James,
Thank you for posting these videos of Campbell on the Shadow. I have in the past few days found myself obsessed by the Shadow of this corona virus as several of my friends or friends of friends are hospitalized now with corona and a family member is very sick in bed and had a test yesterday and will find out within 3-7 days. I also found out today that a friend commited suicide, and I don’t know why yet, and I wonder if he had corona or found this world too hard to live in anymore. My heart is aching and I have had a hard time focussing on much of anything these past few days.
Wishing you and everyone here in this forum blessings,
Mary Ann
Norland,
Yes, your post spiralled my thoughts into some outer (or inner?) spaces! I very much enjoyed your further description of the archetypal psyche. Is this in your opinion more Hillman than Jung in scope insofar as Hillman’s notion and “invention” of Archetypal Psychology? Hillman seems to think that Jung only went so far and had limitations that he could extend and mend. I am curious as to your opinion on that. I love a lot of Hillman and when I began reading him and studying him, it certainly was a new way of seeing. (Way of Seeing, John Berger). It has seemed to me that most of Hillman’s ideas are based upon Jung’s ideas and theories but what fascinates me so much about Hillman is his heavy use of mythology in text.
I agree with your definitions which I agree are quite clarifying. I wish I could say more right now but with the vast amount of responses I do not feel that anything I could add could do any justice to any of the points made in your or anyone else’s discussion/posts/responses here. I feel like all I would be doing would be as I did above, putting my own spin on things from my own lived myths (personal mythology) of personal experience.
I really enjoy your thoughts and your writing and thank you again for an intriguing Mythblast. I also enjoyed everyone’s very rich and deeply contemplative responses to this Mythblast.
Hi Philspar,
I think I remember seeing your OliveBranch name before–anyway, nice to meet you~
–Mary Ann
Hi, Mark,
I enjoyed reading your introductory posts here in the Meet and Greet. Together, you and and Stephen remind me a bit of Kerouac’s On the Road with all your travels both physical and literary. It was also interesting to hear both your stories regarding Pacifica. I attended Pacifica without getting the Ph.D. I really wanted it at the time because I wanted a full time teaching job where I was teaching at the time and they would not give me a full-time teaching job unless I had a Ph.D. However, I quit teaching there and never got the PhD. I am okay with that. I returned to my novel writing and other books I want to finish before I die.
I would read your book if ever you decided to finish it and publish it.
–Mary Ann
Hi Shaheda,
It is nice to see you here on board in the Forum. I love hearing people’s stories of how they first encountered the works of Joseph Campbell, and thank you for sharing your story.
I also enjoyed hearing Stephen’s story.
My first encounter with Campbell’s work was The Power of Myth as a book and not the video. When I was in college someone had recommended it to me, thinking I would like it. And I loved it and kept reading more.
I look forward to your posts, responses, discussion. Again, it is nice to hear your voice here.
–Mary Ann
P.S. to my response:
I did not edit this, and could have, to shorten it. I just wrote it in a stream of…consciousness? This Mythblast was so beautifully rich, and it also brought up a lot of memories for me. Thank you, Nolan, and thank you Stephen for your wonderful thought-provoking introduction to this Mythblast. I am in the middle of moving to a new home, and have been in a rush–it was wonderful to think of these things instead of how to organize the kitchen shelves or where to put the furniture for the first time in about two weeks! 🙂
Norland, Stephen, Everyone,
This Mythblast is so rich; as I read it I felt I was taken from the views of the spiritual and psychic strata from heaven to hell: It begins with the monk in mango forest and the brahmin then works its way down to the untouchables, the outcasts who shovel feces and dead animals or anything diseased. The photo of the monk in the mango garden is like paradise, and the orange glow in the photo accentuates the idea of life all aglow; this seems to me to represent the color of a living myth: as Nolan states, it is alive, alive in the psyche, and there is an immediacy of experience with the living myth that feels (imo) less remote. This is not to say I do not feel a strong affinity with the myths of Pompeii, as the dead myths can still provoke and elicit a strong response through the symbols. The symbols of the dead myths are however perhaps less known–to know is to own in the now; Jung stated that a symbol was the unknown (meaning is open for interpretation) whereas a sign is the known (we already know what the symbol signifies within a particular instance or experience). For instance, since I was raised in the Catholic church I knew (was conditioned through repetition) what to do when I walked in the church and dipped my fingers in holy water. The bowl of water that was blessed by the priest was there waiting for parishioners to bless themselves with. Some made the sign of the cross with it, but old traditional was to make the triple sign of the cross in the bridge between the eyes (much like blessing one’s third eye if not just plain vision!), then the lips (to bless the speech), and then over the heart (to bless one’s feelings of the heart). This felt to me like a living myth back then because I did it in the “now” and I “owned” it, carrying through with the behavior of the ritual. I am thinking of what in those days to me felt like a dead myth and what I come up with is this: The Latin Mass. I often attended Latin Mass with my grandmother Mary who knew the whole thing by heart. To her it was a living myth since she knew what it all meant, whereas to me it was a dead myth because I did not understand a word of it but only knew it was from the more distant past in Rome. However, recollecting now, I can add that in a slight sense it it became to some degree a living myth to me because I saw it alive through my grandmother’s eyes and heart.
One thing that can make some dead myths come alive then is ritual, and Stephen has remarked on this at some point before in the discussions. When we actually participate in the mythic/spiritual rites, we bring it to life as a living myth. How perfectly precise the rite today matches the rites of the initiates or priests or spiritual practitioners in the old or ancient world may not always be the most necessary thing, because if we still get the meaning of the symbols through our psychic impressions of the symbols or acts, then we are still receiving the heart of the myth–its art of hearing with the inner ear the voice of the daimon or our inner selves, when it speaks to our souls and our hearts feel it echo in its chambers–the ‘tabernackle of the heart’, as a pagan/earth spiritualist and Qabalist friend of mine used to say. If we come close to using the symbols in the same (similar) way, we can evoke the same meaning–interpreted through our own psyches much as what the ancients may have been feeling. Even those who attempt the old rites of some cultures with the intent of merely “enacting” the rites (such as Celtic rites, Egyptian rites, or any of the old pagan cultural rites) end up feeling some extent of participation mystique and as if they have actually entered the mysteries. Does it depend on belief? Maybe for some to some extent, but it also seems as if nonetheless the symbols speak to the psyche and thus frequently to the soul (for the sake of those who separate them here–I would have to quote more of James Hillman for that probably).
When we evoke those same feelings that the ancients felt in the past rites or symbols, this then could be part of what the archetypal psyche is. Our human psyches have the tendency to “think” in archetypal fashion–our psyches are indeed part of the archetypal pool. The archetypal psyche, as a poetry professor Richard Messer of Bowling Green State University who had also studied at the Jungian Swiss Institute once said to a class I was in, we have all seen the same sun, the same moon, the same forms of thing such as a tree, for centuries, and these images span the ages; he said that strong poetry or successful poetry utilizes the universal appeal of the archetypes. While universal, the images/symbols still speak to us personally through our personal associations through our personal experience, thus we have both the collective psyche and the individual psyche–but there are other considerations too to the collective psyche such as cultures and societies or religious groups, for that matter. Rituals are one way of resurrecting the (a) dead myth.
This brings me to the idea of this caste system. I am not looking up quotes from Jung here, but just speaking from my own individual experience which I guess is also universal experience for most of us (since we are not monks or brahmins per say!): I do suppose we all feel like brahmins at times and like the undesirables sometimes. Some of us might be actual orphans or some of us might be orphaned in another respect. We might feel like a brahmin in one situation and like an untouchable in another situation. We all have our domains, perhaps of where we feel most high and where we feel most low. We all have things we would like to hide or keep hidden. We would like to hide some of the complexes in our Shadows (according to Jung) due to things about ourselves we would like to keep hidden. Maybe when they come out sometimes and someone sees those things, we feel like an untouchable, feeling like the ‘other’ person will not accept us/like us/think we are okay (remember the 60s I’m Okay/You’re Okay? 🙂 If we cannot change the situation of what it is about us that makes us feel at our lowest lows, perhaps we can change our reactions to it to work through the complex. So the personal alchemy of change could make for the process of ripening in the individual psyche and affect the collective psyche in that process just as the collective affects the individual psyche. All the mangoes could rot on the trees if not picked in the right time. As far as the mythic mangoes or the mythic orange mythologems of mangoes, the symbols are always ripe for the picking–and sometimes they do pick us! (Maybe we were born into a particular culture that believes this or that, or follows a certain religion, etc.) Whether we “eat” our god when we take Communion at the Catholic Mass, or whether we eat Cakes and Wine at a pagan/earth centered spirituality ceremony/circle, there is something there to imbibe insofar as the archetypal symbols. Both these symbols mean that the god or the goddess or the spirit of the earth and the cosmos nurture us.
Then there are those myths that are best left dead and not enacted or resurrected (literally) anymore–that is another story that is the story of Abraham thinking God told him to sacrifice his son. I have a cousin who is a Christian minister who told me that that story marks the time when human sacrifice was no longer to be done and that the sacrifice/crucifixion of Christ was the reminder of that and no more animal sacrifices either. Repetitive enactment of old rites like Easter as just the acknowledgement is the part that is kept alive of the Crucifixion, though, just as pagans will celebrate the same rites going around the Wheel of the Year from Spring Equinox through Winter Solstice. Traditionalists will repeat the old rites/same rites year by year, and others will make it fresh and new each year by changing or adding something, but both traditionalists and non-traditionalists will probably invoke the 4 directions prior to the rite and draw the Circle–just like Catholics will use the holy water and genuflect before Christ on the cross.
The symbols have meaning that gets carried on down through the generations and for the most part all is needed is the symbol to be affected, but to understand it consciously is why we study and discuss the myths. I think those who are not interested in discussing mythology are those that do not feel the desire to understand it the way some of us do. Some of us want to know it, to know the mysteries–for whatever reason. Some people ask why study these old “dead” myths–perhaps they just don’t have the same desire to understand that some of us do. I would love to hear people describe why it is they feel pulled or called to know the old myths, whether a feeling or what you think about it.
