jamesn.
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Also I did some searching last night about Personal Mythology on the internet and came across this wonderful Wikipedia listing that goes quite indepth on this topic and mentions both your mentor; Dr. Krippner; and also Sam Keen who together with Joseph gave workshops at Esalen Institute for many years until just before he passed. Keen’s book; “Your Mythic Journey” was inspired by these workshops; which the Foundation still continues on Joseph’s birthday every Spring. (You may have contributed to this listing and if so it’s extremely well done.) Also it was nice to see Joseph’s biographer; Stephen Larson; “Fire in the Mind”; mentioned along with his terrific book: “The Mythic Image” listed as well.
I see that Stephen has responded to your question and as you decide what you want to do I will leave a link to the JCF YouTube channel which has a huge cache of clips with Joseph addressing a large number topics throughout his work. This is a clip on Jung and the Left-Hand Path of the Hero which specifically addresses Personal Myth. The link to the channel is included within the clip logo below the screen.
Benjamin; here is a Joseph Campbell quote on page 79; from Diane Osbon’s: “Reflections on the Art of Living – A Joseph Campbell Companion”; that might be helpful concerning Stephen’s remarks about: “Atonement”
Stephen: “We see this theme (“Atonement” – or “At-One-Ment” – with the Father) most often in Judeo-Christian mythology (as opposed to “the Meeting with the Goddess”), but it’s a theme that surfaces in most mythologies at some point.”
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Joseph: “Another rendering is “Atonement with the Father”. the son has been separated from the father, meaning he has been living a life that’s inappropiate to his real heritage. the son is the temporal aspect, and the father is the eternal aspect of the same being. The father represents the natural order from which you have been removed. You are trying to find your character, which you inherit from your father. Atonement is bringing into accord with the life momentum out of which you have come.”
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Also in chapter 6; “The Hero’s Journey; the Self as Hero” in the book: “Pathways to Bliss” on pages 117-118; this motif is described in much more detail with a much wider range of possible interpretations as one of four possible threshold hurdles of self realization which are: the Sacred Marriage, Atonement with the Father; Apotheosis, and the “Promethean Fire Theft”; each with it’s own set of particular applications and possible circumstances concerning the hero’s initiation, journey, or process. This aspect of the hero archetype is covered in greater depth much too long to cover in this post; but is very highly recommended for further exploration if you are interested.
But the “Atonement with the Father” aspect is one of the most visible motifs that continually surfaces in mythic themes for the male journey into adulthood as Stephen has described. He may have more to add about this; but I think you’ll find as Robert has mentioned a “Motherload” of references; just not always described in the same manner. When the movie: “Star Wars” shows this motif of: “go find your father” you can see it plainly visible in Luke Skywalker’s interplay with Darth Vader as Joseph has mentioned on several occasions. There are many variations of this theme; but this is one of the most recognizable as reflected in recent modern culture.
I hope this is in someway helpful for getting you started in exploring this very powerful hero theme.
Well that does changed everything in my response doesn’t it? For me there are a lot of things I can reference to what you asked. The first book my grandmother use to read to me was about the “Gods and Heros” of ancient Greece; (in storybook form of course). There they all were in magnificent display when I would go visit my very favorite building in the city: the “Parthenon”. Throughout my life that place has been a source of wonder and still is to this very day. So Stephen not only are we on the same page; but it was not by chance that Joseph’s work affected me so profoundly. And when it came time for me to assimilate his separation between concretizing the Christian mythos and using it metaphorically the walls came tumbling down as it were; and the understanding of what a “personal” as opposed to a public myth involving it’s interpretation was concerned the whole world’s mythos was opened up.
I had had previous exposures to Eastern ideas; such as Buddhism and the Tao; but sitting Zazen on the floor in deep contemplative meditation was not my idea of enlightenment at the time. Fortunately I came across someone named Stephen Gaskin whose Monday Night Classes in San Francisco became a major source of understanding and integrating eastern and western ideas and showed some of their connections in an understandable way; but my individual (personal) journey involved a much more psychological approach because of what I had experienced in my past and continued on into adulthood until Joseph’s introduction into Jungian concepts began to unlock these closed doors.
The untying of my Gordian Knot began to unfold because Joseph could weave all three of these concepts into one thread; as it were; so that realizing what the Labyrinth represented was not just something you read about in ancient history class; but your own psyche; and that dealing with the Minotaur has to do with assimilating your own dark side. The Shadow, the persona, the anima/animus, and the ego along with the many other working components within your own inner world and how you navigate the outer one and finding meaning was the “Call” of direction I so desperately needed to go. And my realization of this began to open up understanding that this process happens throughout the course of a human lifetime as opposed to going through life on a treadmill of mere day to day existence and that it’s an ongoing process called individuation that lasts until we die. This was not the Christian concretized version but the mythological metaphorical one.
Joseph explained how all these cultural themes from the ancient myths from different time periods and their ideas fit together and were all part of this wonderous/nightmare interplay we call life. He also helped you to understand that this was not a destination called Heaven where all the Gods lived; but that it’s all right in front of you if you can just pull back the veil and see it. Your journey or passage through these various stages are part of a larger mosaic that never ends because it’s all one thing enclosed within a universe incomprehensible in size and magnitude. And your goal or quest is to realize the uniqueness of who and what you are within this context from birth to death; and your participation in it instead of withdrawal from it. And that I got from Joseph and not a guru or a priest; but out of your own experience. The most important idea; at least to me anyway; is that: “you are the one who gets to decide what the meaning of that is; and to appreciate the journey along the way.
Sorry for the earlier confusion about this. Perhaps others will care to join in with their ideas on “Personal Myth”.
SidianMSJones; now that Stephen has provided a more comprehensive introduction to your query and has provided a more re-organized reformatting of the forums your search may be a bit easier to seek out some of the answers concerning your own personal myth, or story you may want to research. It is of course “personal to you” as the motif or template suggests; but no matter how you frame it there are certain ideas that may be helpful in finding your own pathway through your journey.
As you have no doubt encountered there are varying points of interpretation of what constitutes this concept as Stephen has offered; and in particular one that most often gets misunderstood is this: “Follow Your Bliss” theme and a what it has to do with what a myth is in relation to this idea of the: Hero/Quest/Journey and it’s relationship to Jung’s ideas. And indeed Joseph was quoted as saying: “I should have said: “Follow your blisters”; so that should give you some sense of how he viewed this very deep personal process of psychological and spiritual transformation within a human lifetime.
So as you start exploring I’m going to provide a link to an older piece introduced by our former Jungian moderator; Cindy Bias; back on the earlier forums that helped clear up some of the ambiguity people often encounter with this subject. It was written in 1986 by: Donald Kalsched and Alan Jones called; “Myth and Psyche: The Evolution of Consciousness”; which should go a long way in helping to bridge the confusion between Campbell and Jung and how their ideas line up. There are lots of places to start; depending of what interests you; so it should be easier now to pick something when you’re ready.
Stephen’s explanation was just wonderful and I don’t see how it could be improved on; so back to your request we’ll look forward to hearing from you or anyone else who has thoughts they might want to share.
Hello Benjamin; welcome to the forums. I’ve just passed along your questions to our head Moderator Stephen Gerringer who should pop in and be of better help on this than I because his background is a lot deeper than mine mythologically speaking. There is the “Atonement with the Father” motif which is a Joseph Campbell interpretation usually associated with the male hero aspect. But there is also the Jungian Archetypal aspect which is more psychological than mythological as I understand it. But actually I think the two are pretty much associated with the same function from a hero’s journey application. At any rate I think Stephen can give you a better overview than I from your query.
Again welcome here; we’re glad to have you among us.
Greetings and a hearty welcome to the forums Sidian. Stephen Gerringer our chief moderator should stop by at some point to give you a few pointers; (alas the site is undergoing a few modifications concerning topical arrangements); but nothing to be concerned about; just reorganizing some things. He will be able to advise you in more depth concerning your question about Personal Myth; but I’ll offer a few things that might be of help in the meantime.
Actually there is quite a bit of information concerning your query that dives deep into this subject because; yes; as your have suspected it is definitely a major theme of Joseph’s; but I’ll let Stephen address this aspect in more detail when he can stop by for a friendly chat.
One way to think about this term if I may offer is: “your story”. Well you probably figured that out by now; huh! But in Jungian parlance; which is a somewhat different approach than that of mythical themes and a somewhat of different way to approach this; I’m going to suggest a couple of places to help get you started in the meantime.
In the above section called Creative Mythology there is a short topic thread that has some conversations you might like; plus a very good clip of Joseph explaining the Jungian approach of what he called: “the Left Hand Path” of the hero quest; and the topic about your story is discussed in the bottom thread of this category. I think you’ll like this one a lot because it’s quick and jumps right into it. But for a couple of deeper dives up in the MythBlast section there are two different threads with Dennis Patrick Slattery that explore this theme in much more depth. (These are at the top of the forum page with his name on them so you should have no problem finding them.)
One word of caution should be mentioned for first time users of these forums is “discussion navigation” if the topic has several participants engaged; and that is pay special attention to which person you are reading because the entries will follow that particular individual concerning what is being addressed and “who is talking to who”. (Sounds confusing but actually you will get the hang of it shortly; just watch the entry number and sequence as you scroll up and down the page; and the indention of the particular person being addressed.) Stephen can help you with this once he comes by. I would start with the Story thread just to get the hang of things; and then as your interest and familiarity with the format increases you’ll probably begin to feel more comfortable with everything.
One last suggestion if you feel adventurous is on the border to your left you will see a red button that says: “Visit the COAHO Archives”. Click on that and it will take you to the older version of the original forums; which are now archived; (but not available to post in); these contain a wealth of older material; and yes; contain an entire category devoted especially to “Personal Mythology”. These forums contain literally thousands of entries so you can wander them to your hearts content; (you just can’t enter anything because they are now retired and out of commission). Enjoy.
So kick your shoes off and get relaxed and have spin around the place. You are among friends; and we’re glad to have you here.
Dennis; I think the way you beautifully phrased this whole overview and stitched it into one small condensed narrative of just a few short sentences identifies the very heart of this issue:
“the enchantment of art to offer us a different cosmos by which to process the flawed one we are in….. how the stories of the past…..entangle our own stories in the present and create a webbing with these eternal narratives that flex with us over time. By means of these narratives…..we glimpse shards of a different world, elegant but not free of flaws; it is a moment of myth-making when we find analogies by which to gauge our own reality…. That is the role of art: to open our vision to realities under our noses.”
“Mythmaking” indeed; especially of our own lived personal myth as you so precisely identified I think is our timeless human challenge. This is the desire of the “Self as the regulating Archetypal center of wholeness” to know and express itself through this experience. It is more than just meaning and purpose as Joseph explained to Bill Moyer’s in “The Power of Myth”: it is the rapture of being alive in it’s highest sense. To know that your are one with this eternal and timeless dimension through which Art is the portal. And this experience informs us that we are more than just a little piece of carbon or biological matter; but that we are interconnected to this huge web of space and time and experience that has gone before us and through which we can now offer our own contribution of: picture, song, and verse to leave behind to witness that we were here.
This I think is what our personal story is all about and attempts to communicate to our inner world. Our few little moments in the grand scheme of things are so much more than just mere existence as Jung points out when he says: “like a light in the dark”; that we are like a candle to those who come after that speaks to our higher nature and calling if we can but find it; than just to suffer going through the motions of mere day to day survival of the wasteland. That life “can” have meaning and make sense and have a purpose if only we have the eyes to see it; to have the ears to hear it’s song that calls to us from the heart and lets us know the power we possess if only we can break through our own boundaries that hold us back. And that it is through the importance of our struggles we are able to know and define who and what we are and what our legacy will be to any who come after.
As you so eloquently express “this” is art’s mission and we are it’s carriers with our own message to offer something of value to others who would hear what we have to say. And if we can as Joseph so profoundly put it: “participate joyfully in the suffering of others” we will have left something more of true value than just the continuous broken repetition of ego’s clashing against each other jockeying for position to let others know how important they are while the gifts of the garden lay spread upon the ground right in front of them unseen.
I often wonder when people put such high monetary value on a piece of art did they understand what it was attempting to communicate; not what it’s financial value is worth. A child’s scribbled drawing as an expression of their love can have more meaning and value to parent or loved one to whom it was offered and has no price tag that can be put upon it. Do we hear the birds sing of a beautiful spring morning or smell the flowers and foliage after a fresh summer rain; do we hear and feel the crunch of the dry leaves of a fall’s evening’s sunset or the touch of soft winter snowflakes as they surround our senses with quiet contemplation? When we see the birds migrate do we not long to go with them to a place that only they know? And when we see the suffering of another do we not at least in some small measure feel their pain?
To be alive and in the world can mean many things to different people; but if our questions are turned inward toward a deeper domain of reflection does not art meet us there like an old friend asking us how it can be service? The Grail is right here in front of us if we can pierce through the outer veil of surface display as Joseph shows us so often throughout so much of his work. And a life lived through it’s own volition and not something put on you by society or someone else is an awakening to this dimension of our own myth he talks about. And these are the questions our story can answer for us if only we can learn how to listen. That’s what the “Call of the Adventure” is all about of finding that inner “Bliss” thing that speaks to you and following it. It’s not out there somewhere but within you.
There is a wonderful little passage in Michael Tom’s: “An Open life” on page 110; where he is talking with Toms about finding your own model for the construction of your life. Toms asks: “Isn’t it important to respect our own uniqueness?”
Joseph answers: “I think that’s the most important thing of all. That’s why you really can’t follow a guru. You can’t ask somebody to give (The Reason), but you can find one for yourself: you decide what the meaning of your life is to be. People talk about the meaning of life; there is no meaning of life—there are lots of meanings of different lives, and you must decide what you want your own to be.”
There is a terrific version of the Hero/Call/Quest motif he gives in one of his lectures where he talks about the “formula of quest”. He says it starts when life dries up and something is missing so the hero goes in quest to find out what it is and make it his own. It is a solitary call by nature and you must become a detective, a hunter following a path into your own dark forest where you don’t know where you are going or what it is you are looking for but you are following this razor’s edge of your night-sea journey to find your grail castle where the answers or illuminations reside. (And the important thing here he stresses is that “there are no set rules” for how this motif unfolds.) It is unique to you alone.
In other words you can look at what Carl Jung says; you can read a piece of literature for a reference, you can meditate or take up an art form for the engagement and insight, or just be who you are and follow the path of your own instincts; but this call of your adventure has to be coming right out of your own life and not someone else’s. As he mentions when talking about following one’s bliss: “your notion of your bliss comes from what the push out of your own existence is informing you”. Not what the guru or the preacher or whatever social “virtue manager” is attempting to put on you about how you should live your life or what the value system that it promotes is attempting to coerce you into. You may not know what it is that’s ticking inside you; but you can feel something is not quite right and this call will become more insistent as time goes on if you refuse to listen. It can be early or later in your life but we are a continuing work in progress; and the psyche will have it’s way whether we listen to it’s message or not.
As you and I have both been discussing our times are so very difficult in this regard because not only are the different value systems in conflict with each other; the moorings that once provided the spiritual glue that held them in place for society to look for guidance are evaporating and no longer work (if personalized and interpreted in the “ole time way” that is concretely instead of metaphorically utilized). The issue is not about whether the right hand path of the village compound will work just fine for some or not; but whether it is utilized in the proper way.
But the left hand path of the hero/quest is the dangerous one because there is no safety net and you are are on your own. Magical aid of the mythical world may intervene at some point by offering support; but in the end it is the lone hero quest that must complete the task the inner world is asking for. “Science” has made the personal God as deity and his rules dysfunctional and irrelevant and it is now up to the individual who must take charge for their own responsibility of what is important for the meaning and conduct of their own lives; and as Joseph puts it so succinctly: “we are now in a freefall into the future”.
Much of our current struggle we’ve been discussing about now is against the machine and the technology and the political systems that want to dominate us. And we must learn to live within these realities we now find ourselves in by as Joseph mentioned concerning Luke Skywalker: “of not going over to the dark side”; of not capitulating or relinquishing our individuality and humanity for their purposes. And whether it includes integrating our shadow or opening up our humanity as you illustrated above this song of art continually helps to light our way forward. This was another wonderful post from you Dennis; and it is so good to be here with you to share it.
Here is a quick little clip from the Power of Myth that was added recently to the JCF YouTube channel that addresses some of these themes the individual has to navigate in thinking about god and the universe that Joseph describes.
David; there is an old gnostic quote I’m trying to remember that goes something like:
“If you bring forth that which is within you it will save you; but if you deny that which is within you it will destroy you.”
I know this is not the precise version of the quote; but my sense of it is that it may be saying something similar. From your understanding are we talking about: “the other in you; like the shadow; or is it a denied wish or talent that has not been given it’s voice or both; perhaps suppressed from the internal Dragon power that must be faced, assimilated, or integrated as you were just mentioning?
Here is an addendum link I am adding that contains a number of related quotes which include God as well as the above. Carl Jung concerning this Thomas Gospel quote.
Oh Dennis; I so loved your op-ed on “Lying and Violence” and what the role of the artist can play in dispelling it’s negative effects:
” The place and power of the arts, including writing but not limited to it, is that they have the power “to vanquish lies.”
I think in many ways this speaks to very heart of much of the intimately personal and outwardly social suffering we see and experience in much of today’s modern world. Indeed these eternal truth’s keep surfacing again and again as powerfully resonant recurring themes that break through the veil that so often imprisons us all in whatever form they make their appearance. And whether it’s the schoolyard bully or the political lie uses coercion through the rhetoric of intimidation and through the vehicle of the lie to promote their cause. How many young boys and girls have been manipulated and minimized and made to feel less than who they are by the facade or mask of the machismo persona of a bullying male or the social shame for a young girl of the embarrassment of not being feminine enough. And is this constant recurring theme not reflected through art when we see Michelangelo’s “David” with his slingshot and “steady gaze” at the bully Goliath “knows” he can vanquish him?; (do we not see this very same archetype) in every Western where the hero has to rise to the occasion to meet his foe?; or when we see the Statue of Mother Mary holding the broken body of Jesus in her arms – (do we not feel the pain) of every mother who has ever born a child? (So very well said Dennis!) Yes; art reminds us of these eternal themes that the lie intends to cover and only truth through these various forms can reveal. The song; the written page; the paint brush on canvas or the sculpture’s chisel on stone all are vehicles to break this spell as you so insightfully point out.
And if I may be permitted; it is also why I think what you are doing is so vitally important; because in these confusing and emotionally challenging times I don’t think there is anything more important than to help someone find their voice so they can speak their truth to a world that so desperately needs to hear it!
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One last word for those not familiar with Dennis’s page. Although the link to his site has already been listed in a separate discussion I will leave it here as well. (I check it regularly because he always has something I like reading about and his painting is fascinating as well. You may like them too as you explore other areas of his site.) Dennis Slattery’s blog
JA; since your post seemed directed to Dennis I wanted to wait before I said anything until he had a chance to respond:
“I am very grateful for your response. And I am grateful to your for turning your treasure into a pathway for others in service to those who need someone like you to witness. Wonderful work, my friend.”
If I may be permitted I too was very moved by what you shared; and hope you will feel comfortable joining in on our further exploration of this topic.
One of the things that I seem to see more and more that keeps popping up on my radar is “social isolation”. And Facebook as well as other forms of social media seem to reflect that deeper inner need for people to connect with each other. I think in many ways within modern society we find ourselves alone but often times this aloneness is within a crowd as well as solitary. And one of the reasons for this recent toxicity we experience on social media and is reflected in our sense of insecurity about our self-image. (The state of this toxicity seems to encourage this tendency and further exacerbate this infection to the point where one’s social comfort feels at stake whenever a comment or communication is put forth so that the tendency is to cautiously withdraw into one’s inner shell which encourages this further isolation from each other.)
We fall back into protected groups where we feel secure and our notions of who we are and the things we like are not criticized or challenged for social validity. And nowhere does this seem more prevalent than in one’s “persona” or social mask that is worn that tells our outer world we are somebody that has status of one kind or another or in one form or another. The clothes we wear, the house we live in, the car we drive, the things we buy all reflect this to some degree; but I think the value of “friendship” needs to be raised to a much higher level than is at present fully appreciated. We know people; we like people; (or least to some degree on a social level); but how many deep friendships do we really have? We have family; (most people have at least some form of these relationships); and we have work relationships because making a living is a requirement if one is to survive. And I think for many at this particular moment our devices interconnect us to some if not most of these relationships but within certain perimeters. If we have a religion we practice then it may or may not provide a certain amount of security or companionship; but do we really know who we are and what we want?
As Dennis and JA were mentioning earlier certain literary works help connect us to our inner world in some ways; (like a message in bottle from someone who has visited these shores long before us); and we can reflect on these insights that have come down to us through time. But the modern world we now find ourselves in poses new challenges that are not always included in these narratives and we are challenged to look through a different lens than the one that is offered and draw our own conclusions. And art in it’s many forms provides doorways that offer a way out of our self enclosures and we can think of things in a different way than society usually offers. Self-expression I think is a huge boon for the modern individual as it always has been throughout human history; only now modern man is challenged to find meaning in a different way than before because the role of myth as opposed to religion offers this choice. And to me the idea of a “personal myth”; (which is what Joseph refers to in much of his work); provides this pathway forward for an individual out of his own personal pain. One thing Joseph relies heavily on concerning religion is the idea of the metaphor as opposed to a concretized symbol; so that if someone says Jesus or the Tao or Buddhism we are referring to something that is within the individual consciousness; not somewhere outside themselves like a deity with a “thou shalt” system with a set of rules to be obeyed; and that the gods are symbolic of something within.
So I’m wondering how others might see how our relationships are defined within these parameters of the way we find meaning and answers to these deep inner questions that follow us throughout our lives. (I think they have huge implications for the way we see ourselves; but I’d like to hear some of Dennis’s and everyone else’s thoughts on this before I go any further.)
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I’m adding this little clip of Joseph’s as a short addendum to help clarify the difference between the hero quest of the left-hand path and the right hand path of the village compound which he lays out as the two distinct choices the individual has within the bounds of normal modern life.
Dennis and Stephen; I just can’t say enough about the relevance to today’s chaos in modern life that I think this approach helps the individual to navigate within today’s hectic existence. Joseph Campbell said once: “that if you really want to help this world you have to have to show how to live in it”; and I can think of no better way to do this than to help an individual find their own story. Sounds simple; (huh?). Well if you don’t know who you are or where you going then you are lost on the sea of life like a ship without a rudder. And to give someone a sense of their own narrative and that it is they who are the author of their own life is to provide them with the ability to chart their own course through it. If an individual has the awareness that the pen in their hand can help to provide meaning and purpose to a sea of images which before offered no context or direction then they now can begin to make sense of who they are and where they want to go.
If you have a watch; you must set it for time to have relevance and meaning. If you have a compass you must know where North is to chart your course on your map to go anywhere; otherwise you are just lost in an overwhelming chaos where survival is the law of existence. But with this simple knowledge of narrative and story as your framework the door is now opened to a new way of seeing and interpreting; and your life becomes more than just meaningless struggle because now you have a key that unlocks the door to meaning and purpose. What was once seen as an endless pathway full of pain and sorrow now begins to change into one that offers a really important word: “hope”. And just like Pandora’s Box was the one redeeming quality that offered man a way out of his misery from the pain and afflictions that had been unleashed on an unsuspecting world. This hope brings harmony; a way to make sense out of chaos; and this idea of one’s individual story and personal narrative turns this pathway into possibility and healing and wholeness that was once missing and now brings realization that life can have fulfillment and provide as Jung put it: ” a light in the dark of mere existence”.
All of the things both you and Stephen mentioned for me play into this simple understanding that so often is not included in so much of religious dogma because “you” are not the one steering the ship you are riding in but the deity with the “thou shalt system” is calling the shots. You are denied entrance into the Garden because you are subservient and must obey it’s laws and commands; so that now you are left adrift in a sea of warring gods; each with their own set of rules for you to obey to enter their particular kingdom of paradise which was yours by right in the first place; and that right to now enter you hold with the pen that is in your hand as you change your own course by which you are steering your ship.
We are living in a time when all the normal once held ideas about religions and myths are changing; but the one constant that remains is that of the individual. And if an individual is allowed their own narrative and story about how they should live then the chaos has the potential to then become a symphony or grand opera of living even though as Joseph mentioned the reality of the: “Ouroboros” of life eating life remains as the eternal unchanging constant of the ages. Technology and science as Joseph mentioned are not in conflict with the individual but provide an ever widening context within a constantly evolving storyline that man must learn to navigate if he as a species is to survive. And much of what Joseph mentioned about the understanding of what a myth must do to provide coherence within this context has to evolve along with it. And if you give the rudder to the individual to steer their own vessel by teaching them what a metaphor is; what a symbolic image is; how to read the roadmap of their own life; then by giving them a sense of their own personal story, narrative and context you have pointed the way out of their own misery.
This personal umbilical cord; this Ariadne Thread represents the way out of their Labyrinth and introduces them to their own Minotaur whom they must wrestle with if their emotions are going to be manageable; instead of a terror that wrecks havoc on an unsuspecting world. And perhaps for the first time one’s screams in the night can become a song that the heart has long yearned to hear and so desperately needs to bring humanity back from the brink of it’s own destruction.
I realize this response of mine may be a little out of the ordinary; and if it moves too strongly toward the incoherent then I offer my apologies for I had some of this experience when I was locked in a children’s psychiatric hospital ward and then transferred to a children’s home with at risk youth for many years because of my mental health concerns with deep depression. When I was a young teen I found my own path toward my own story but I did not understand what this narrative was until I came across Joseph’s work which helped me to put the pieces together in a comprehendible way. There were all kinds of adventures toward clarity that followed; full of mistakes and ups and downs through stormy tossed seas of emotional turmoil; but gradually through time the pieces started coming together where some coherence began to reveal many of the things I needed to understand. Each person’s life has it’s own context and mine certainly is no different; but for me the catalyst and guiding force was the individual personal myth; and up to that point my life was so very chaotic. So this idea of personal myth is a big deal to me because I have lived with it and understand what significance it can make within one’s life context. I’ve thought about this topic a lot ever since I saw it on Dennis’s blog; and for me personally I cannot think of something more important and relative to the times we are now living; especially considering how Covid has been such an affect agent of change.
Dennis; this is such important work you are doing and I think it holds great promise for healing and rebuilding so much of the personal sorrow and turmoil in peoples lives right now. Troubled Youth and Seniors are two other areas I think could be explored. In my humble opinion I think we are at the threshold of a new way of thinking about how people see their lives and so I’ll leave an example below that has to do with the context that in my humble opinion is directly connected to what we are talking about.
Each person has an internal story they are living whether they are aware of it or not. And as we live through these various stages from birth through maturity we each have a storyline that provides meaning and purpose if it is awakened. This I think was one of Joseph’s main themes he was communicating through the idea of mythical living in much of his work such as revealed in the 6 part series with Bill Moyers called: “The Power of Myth” which you mentioned earlier. And if people can become aware of this understanding that they can control at least to some extent what happens to them and that they can become their own agents of change so that the purpose and meaning they seek becomes accessible to them. Also throughout the stages of a person’s life their story changes and there is an acquired wisdom of lived experience that can be accessed and even under the right circumstances passed on. But we also know that instead what often happens at the end of one’s life is that society tosses them aside for the next new generation to takeover with all that lived experience left to deteriorate in nursing homes without any value as though living was exclusive only for the young. This to me seems to be utter madness incarnate!
Perhaps I am under an illusion but I think it is now within our grasp that given the right circumstances society has the ability to change that notion and perception into a more humane outcome; and as an enlargement on your idea this very sort clip of Michael Rossato-Bennett’s work with “Music and Memory” provides an example. (This idea or concept has now taken root and turned into a nation-wide movement affecting thousands of people across the country and still expanding.) To me it’s all about the idea of story; and although this a different medium; the idea of improving the integrity of the individual internal life story is the same. Perhaps this is not a new idea but to me as you have shown though your painting and multiple approach through art; this speaks to creating the possibilities of developing a personal narrative within multiple disciplines and enlarging them across all levels and age groups of society. Why is this important? Because everyone has a story; and a story can change the world.
Again as always your work continues to be an inspiration and it is so very appreciated!
Dennis; I just want to say how meaningful it is to be able to have these discussions with you and to explore all these different dimensions of these various themes and why they are so important to all of us. I want to add one more topic ingredient to the pot because I definitely think it mixes in with the entire soup batch we have been cooking because I think we need to be thinking in a different way than we are use to about this last component which is “aging and Elder-hood” as opposed to child-hood. If we spent our entire life acquiring: knowledge, wisdom, and experience, why in the world as we age is all of this value that has been accumulated dismissed and as people age; (which by the way we all have a stake in); and the answer is “ageism”. I think this topic is of enormous importance in relation to understanding and making use of not only the mythical dimension of the life process and it’s connection to the ends and means of living itself; but to the very same social and emotional isolation that youth is experiencing and the resulting imbalance within society. The Elderly are isolated from society in much the same way as the young who are just entering Adult-hood; so that the inter-personal inner sense of meaningful life trajectory is not experienced in the same manner and in many ways is excluded and not acknowledged the same social value. With the young it usually goes something like: “Oh, they are too young to know better”; with the elderly: ” They are too old to grasp what is in front of them”. And their social worth is not validated in the same manner or way because it is minimized.
So let us dig a little deeper when we think in terms of social isolation and personal meaning that someone might have or feel when we start to see the rise in suicide rates; (which by the way this pandemic has exacerbated); and add in where the Elderly often wind up as they age-out of social importance and engagement as in retirement for instance. Senior care facilities often become warehouses for the sick and dying without the proper emotional and spiritual nourishment and attention which they might need to draw from; but also we are as a society are denied the accumulated wealth and benefits of their experiences. If we have a youth oriented culture that puts all emphasis on what Adults can offer; how and where will the life experience come from if not from those who have already experienced it? In other words Adults have “immediate” know how; the Elderly have “long range” know how. (Children need both immediate and long range know how.)
So here is where I’m heading with this. For most of human history the elder adults lived and died within the family unit; and grandparents were an essential part of the family structure because the interplay between: young, middle, and elder individuals not only gave life meaning and purpose; it provided the necessary tools to navigate the life process; but there have been some huge alterations within modern society that reflect so much of it’s present dysfunction.
There is a great deal more that could be added about the pressures the modern individual is experiencing concerning not only: digital technology, social media, how the actual living structure of houses and cities have been altered; play into this; but more importantly as Joseph has pointed out there is the loss of social myth and how it has affected this; (which he called our new “Free Fall into the future”); which has to do with the actual glue the older myths provided that once held them together. Because he saw these older mythic structures were losing their relevance because of science and a more secular individualized personal mythic form was taking it’s place.
But saying this I don’t want to make this addition to the topic to complex and I will just stay with “aging” for the moment because it has not been covered and has a great deal to offer this subject of the: “The Power of the Personal”. We need to think about aging differently as AARP’s Dr. Bill Thomas: (recognized as one of the world’s leading authorities on Geriatrics has been suggesting). And like Joseph has been a real maverick in the groundbreaking way he has been helping to instigate a new healthcare revolution in the way we perceive and approach this oncoming tsunami of elderly coming down the road. (Think Boomer generation population explosion that are now retiring). His books, lectures, and projects are too vast to cover here; but my objective is to point out this subject has been completely left out of most discussions concerning the social relevance to this topic of social isolation; and along with youth needs and development are so important to the way we think of our total life processes, meaning, and interplay concerning where we are now going forward. So with that in mind I’m going to leave a very short YouTube interview that explains some of his insights.
Thank you Shaheda for such a powerful insight into exactly what I was attempting to address; which the term I was unaware of had already been identified as: “Social Isolation”. And one of the horrific results that can come about if not understood within it’s proper context is starting to finally gain attention as it is now coming to be realized from your extraordinary piece in the outrageous tragedy of “KIRS”. The psychological dimensions of this nightmare atrocity are beyond human comprehension that such unbelievable treatment of any child could be hidden for so long; and because of race like the holocaust must never be allowed to occur again goes without saying. And even though the depths of human depravity and abuse have been recognized throughout history this takes that realization to a whole other level considering; as she so adamantly pointed out: “that no one would attempt to even listen”!
Although nowhere near as extreme I want to make a connection about “listening and being heard” to an even larger scale because it hasn’t been noticed like it needs to be flying under the radar for so long and only now as the Corona virus has emerged has exacerbated it into full devastating view. In many ways we are becoming increasingly disconnected from each other and this evidence is everywhere hiding in plain sight under the radar of our everyday social consciousness as I’ll show you why.
Below I will leave a copy of an article that continually kept popping up on my newsfeed yesterday that illustrates what I’m talking about.
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Associated Press
Poll: Millions in US struggle through life with few to trust
ALEXANDRA OLSON
Thu, June 10, 2021, 7:00 AMNEW YORK (AP) — Karen Glidden’s loneliness became unbearable during the coronavirus pandemic.
The 72-year-old widow, who suffers from vision loss and diabetes and lives far from any relatives, barely left her house in Champion, Michigan, this past year, for fear of contracting the virus. Finally vaccinated, she was looking forward to venturing out when her beloved service dog died last month.It doesn’t help that her circle of trusted friends has dwindled to one neighbor she counts on to help her shop, get to the doctor and hang out.
“I feel like I’m in a prison most of the time and once in a while, I get to go out,” said Glidden, whose adult children live in California and Hawaii, where she was born and raised.
She is not alone in her sense of social isolation.
Millions of Americans are struggling through life with few people they can trust for personal and professional help, a disconnect that raises a key barrier to recovery from the social, emotional and economic fallout of the pandemic, according to a new a poll from The Impact Genome Project and The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research.
The poll finds 18% of U.S. adults, or about 46 million people, say they have just one person or nobody they can trust for help in their personal lives, such as emergency child care needs, a ride to the airport or support when they fall sick. And 28% say they have just one person or nobody they can trust to help draft a resume, connect to an employer or navigate workplace challenges.
The isolation is more acute among Black and Hispanic Americans. Thirty-eight percent of Black adults and 35% of Hispanic adults said they had only one or no trusted person to help navigate their work lives, compared with 26% of white adults. In their personal lives, 30% of Hispanic adults and 25% of Black adults said they have one or no trusted people, while 14% of white adults said the same.
Researchers have long debated the idea that the U.S. has suffered from a decline in social capital, or the value derived from personal relationships and civic engagement.
The General Social Survey, a national representative survey conducted by NORC since 1972, suggests that the number of people Americans feel they can trust had declined by the early 2000s, compared with two decades earlier, although there is little consensus about the extent of this isolation or its causes. The rise of social media has added another layer of debate, as experts explore whether it broadens networks or lures people in isolating echo chambers.
The Impact Genome/AP-NORC poll sought to measure how much social capital Americans can count as they try to pick up the pieces of lives fractured by the pandemic. The findings suggest that for many Americans, the pandemic has chipped away at whatever social capital they had going into it.
Americans were more likely to report a decline than an increase in the number of people they could trust over the past year. Just 6% of Americans said their network of trusted people grew, compared with 16% who reported that it shrank. While the majority of Americans said the number of people they could trust stayed the same, nearly 3 in 10 said they asked for less support from family and friends because of COVID-19.
Community bonds have proved to be critical to recovery from calamities such as Superstorm Sandy in 2012, said Jennifer Benz, deputy director of The AP-NORC Center.
But the nature of the pandemic made those bonds difficult or even impossible to maintain. Schools, community centers, churches, synagogues and mosques closed. People couldn’t ask neighbors or grandparents for help with child care or other needs for fear of spreading the virus.
About half of Americans are engaged in civic groups such as religious institutions, schools or community service groups, according to the new poll. And 42% of all adults said they have become less involved with civic groups during the pandemic, compared with just 21% who said they became more engaged.
“Compared to the way social capital can be leveraged in other disasters, the key difference has been that this is a disaster where your civic duty was to be on your own,” Benz said.
Surveys from the Pew Research Center suggested that relocation increased during the pandemic. While some people moved to be closer to family, more relocated because of job loss or other financial stresses.
Warlin Rosso, 29, has moved often in pursuit of financial stability, often at the cost of his social ties.
He left behind his entire family, including 14 siblings, when he immigrated to the U.S. five years ago from the Dominican Republic. He worked at a warehouse in Chicago for three years, sharing an apartment with a girlfriend. But when that relationship fell apart, he couldn’t afford to move out on his own. In December 2019, he relocated to Jackson, Mississippi, where a childhood friend let him move in.
That friend, Rosso said, remains the only person in Jackson he can trust for help. As the pandemic closed in, Rosso struggled in a city where the Hispanic community is tiny.
Through social media, he found work with a Nicaraguan man who owned a construction business. Later, he found a training program that landed him a job as hospital aide.
His co-workers are friendly, but he feels isolated. Sometimes, he said, patients bluntly ask to be helped by a non-Latino worker. He hopes eventually to get a similar job back in Chicago, where he has friends.
“It’s not always welcoming for Hispanics here,” Rosso said. “Here, I’m alone.”
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The AP-NORC poll of 2,314 adults was conducted March 25-April 15 using a sample drawn from NORC’s probability-based AmeriSpeak Panel, which is designed to be representative of the U.S. population. The margin of sampling error for all respondents is plus or minus 2.9 percentage points._____________________________________________________________________________
This is only one of a number of pieces that have been becoming more and more visible about what Covid has helped to bring into view about our increasing social dilemma that underlines what is happening to the human condition because of an increasing rise in our inability to connect with each other on a deep interpersonal level and it’s global. This is the face of our new normal that modern society is presenting that we as human beings must figure out how to address. Social media is both a cause and a savior in many senses because it allows us the ability to interface and interact globally in real time; but at the same time it also in many ways isolates us into separate groups. Modern computer based technology has through the internet become both a boon and an invasive and controlling force; and with the increasing use of Artificial Intelligence with also begin to sculpt our perception of reality in ways we aren’t even aware of such as the use of misinformation for instance.
As Shaheda so precisely and articulately pointed out our ability to: “Listen and be Heard” I think is going to become increasingly more important because as these two pieces illustrate we have only scratched the veneer of a very deep inner need that lies festering underneath the surface of our everyday lives. We are disconnected in a way we are only beginning to realize the scope of as can be seen in the rise of hate groups and growing animosity between people who don’t even know each other and have lost this ability to listen; be heard; and to feel like they have a place at the table of our larger human family.
There is no way this humble little entry can truly identify the larger landscape of this ever growing concern that Covid among other things has begun to reveal; but the ability of people to get to know themselves underneath the surface of their normal everyday conscious I think is going to become a more important part of the demands of future everyday life looking ahead. And simple little things like learning how to write about oneself and reflect on who you are and to know you are not alone I think will not only be desirable but critical for the basic mental health of the society in which they live. Perhaps a new way of integrating religion might be a possibility; but so far there are definite problems that are going to have to be resolved. And maybe this is not doable in the near future; but looking into the distance it may be unavoidable if we as human beings are going to be able to survive; because looming in the distance is climate change and global warming and not just a virus that’s already brought us to an uncertain future which we must figure out how to negotiate looking ahead.
Shaheda offers a powerful reminder of what can happen if we just turn our backs and say: “it’s always been this way”; but as Joseph Campbell also reminded us; even though the world has always been a mess and you are not going to change that reality of life eating life; you participate in it. You can make a choice and engage in this wonderous Operatic nightmare that Joseph describes; or you can continue to be locked in the cage of your own never ending pain which like Joseph also describes: (would be like: “a madman screaming at bughouse walls”). Jung saw this approaching darkness of the human condition coming down the road when he warned about mankind’s future and that we must confront our shadow and integrate it. And I think if we as human beings can learn how to listen and be heard we will be one step closer to opening this door and seeing not only who we are, but who we can become. And Dennis we so appreciate your spending your time and offering your insights so we may better understand how better to accomplish these things.
Thank you so much Dennis; your response ties in perfectly with my last request which is directly related to: anxiety, shame, and the debilitating effects of: separation, isolation, and loneliness that are the cause and result of not only low self-esteem; but that of mistrust. Mistrust caused by the inability to share one’s inner feelings which further exacerbates their sense of hopelessness and despair that nothing can come to relieve their pain. This is what happens when shame and loss of community closes all doors. And it contains a much darker milieu talked about in today’s newsfeed where there was an article that specifically articulates what many are feeling now because Covid; and especially “misinformation” has created a social isolation so severe that people do not know who to trust to seek help from their pain and isolation. And when one considers the toxicity and distrust promoted within our newsfeeds and especially social media it is no wonder that this mistrust is a main driver surrounding our new normal. If people fear medical opinion much less vaccines, if they despise people they do not know much less have never met because of encouraged political animosity; then where do they look to find relief, comfort, and hope that they can overcome their inner tragedies and demons.
This is where the second part of my query from the lecture series comes in; (which unfortunately you were not able to attend); which Michael Meade mentions about: “witnessing; and being heard”; which I mentioned here:
Dennis; your lecture on this issue I think provided a very important insight that was further addressed in Michael Meade’s lecture that same week on one’s “Inner Genius”; when he talked about where our “Inner Genius” lies which is behind our pain and our wounds. But he also approached this critical need by adding another way to think about it which you also addressed by personal writing. Meade said that there is an inner desire to not only “Witness” our inner self; but also it is just as important – “to be Heard”! I think here is one of the greatest gifts humanity has to offer itself; because by entering into a dialogue with our inner personhood and sharing it with both with oneself as well as others we allow others to also become vehicles of healing and wholeness; and the raising of consciousness itself. And whether one’s inner process of dialogue is instigated through journaling, through support groups, or through just sharing one’s pain through that most important of human relationships – (that of Friendship); we become more than just an individual; we become part of our larger community of human family; we become that realization of what Joseph and so many others throughout history have referred to as: “you and the other are one”. And we are not alone; left in the darkness of our own human suffering!” To many this simple suggestion would seem like a “no brainer”; but if we look deeper I think it would be very difficult to articulate the depth these nuances go to supply the meaning and sense of personhood these relationships provide. For instance how many real friendships does one normally have? Not the virtual chit-chat ones; but the deep heartfelt ones the soul longs for to share one’s innermost thoughts, feelings, and fears with? But it’s more than just having a sounding board to bounce things off of; because as we should know from what our books and art tell us these very special and rare relationships should offer what the soul needs to thrive; for we also know that no soul thrives alone!
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In your brand new project with prison inmates as well as what you have so often encouraged throughout your books and lectures; “personal journaling” you show us is an important resource to establish an inner dialogue with the self so that one may be able to hear what our inner voice is asking for. And indeed when we as individuals seek human contact and are able to share our intimate feelings with others so that we no longer feel alone. AA meetings for instance are a great example where “witnessing and being heard” can have healing results concerning acknowledging our masks and defense mechanisms and what lies behind them; but one thing I think is lacking is understanding our “new normal” is somewhat different in that it also exposes our lack of community in a new and terrifying way. It sends a message that lets you know in no uncertain terms that we are not only alone; but there is now mistrust and fear to contend with on a level not seen before that promotes helplessness. Here is where our most valuable weapon can be called forth which is that of friendship. This powerful tool has the ability turn adversity into meaning, comfort, and hope; something that can reveal the deeper inner dimensions of who we really are because it lights the candle that illuminates the darkness that surrounds us with an affirmation that only love and compassion and inter-human connection can supply. I know for myself sometimes in closed group settings venting my frustration can often bring a sense of temporary “Catharsis”. A feeling of fighting back against the frustration that grips so many of us. But this is only a band-aid for a much deeper wound that I think many us are experiencing; and whether it visits us through our Shadow projections out loud; or follows us in quiet reflection; we are still confronted by this social dilemma that seems to know no end in sight.
I think this ties in very much with personal expression and our psyche’s inner need to express itself; to make sense of what we are surrounded by in a way that provides affirmation to our existence that we share with others. And it does this in a way where we can actually experience that ultimate goal of the psyche that Jung refers to of: “being-in-being”. (What Joseph refers to as experiencing: “the rapture and wonder of being alive”; not just that of mere existence; and which goes past meaning.)
I see more and more as your important work points out that people don’t know themselves; and that furthermore as Joseph points out; that the world is a wasteland that we must deal with in learning how live within a system that must “not” be allowed to rob us of our personal selfhood. And by getting in touch with who we are this road or path becomes a gateway to see our interhuman connection with others as well as healing our inner wounds.
One of our chief moderators; Michael Lambert; over the years has brought up the importance of teaching kids to: “write about themselves”; to explore their inner feelings and to connect these insights to their developing understanding of what archetypes and mythic themes are and to be able to see these things in everyday life and how this relates to them. But what one of the most illuminating questions he would often have to address from them is: “I just don’t know how to write about myself”. I think this question lies at the very heart of why people feel so disconnected to themselves; which is one of the main issues I think your work is so critically concerned with.
Now I bring this up because I wanted to directly address an issue that Shaheda and I; as well as others like Marianne, Stephen, and Michael have talked about on various occasions which is teenage disconnection. And it most often raises it’s head with teen gun violence and crime in a world that doesn’t seem to care. The rising numbers are staggering; and yet no one seems to know how to address the cultural divides that exacerbate it; and as this drift away from the previous moorings that society always depended on to provide guidance and help; such as religion; no longer work because as Joseph pointed out they are no longer relevant to the reality in which they are enveloped. Here is where personal writing can become a weapon against despair as you point out; as well as a lifeline to a sense of friendship and community that can be nurtured that Michael Meade mentioned; but these other new social dynamics I mentioned I think are changing the rule book. Covid and mistrust; especially on social media are isolating people more and more in regards to this inner despondency and angst; especially among teenagers; and to bridge these gaps I think is going to take more than just the same old approaches.
There was a movie I referred to in one of my other posts called: “The Freedom Writers Diary” where teacher Erwin Gruwell used personal writing as a gateway to opening up possibilities to who they could become; and went on to build a foundation that teaches others how to do this as one example. But my point has to do with connecting some of these various dots as to how you see or interpret these “new normal” dynamics through your own ideas; (like you talk about in your book of: Writing Myth/Mythic Writing); of breaching this guardian gateway for writing, sharing, and being heard, and sense of friendship and community as weapons seen in within your own philosophy of how to combat these forces we face; and if you wouldn’t mind sharing some of your personal thoughts about this. You have spoken so eloquently and passionately from your own personal experience of using “the pen in your hand” to make these connections to open this door. And I find the biggest hurdle to overcome sometimes is our own reluctance to share these things with others in a way we can get past these gate guardians where our dragon or minotaur lies waiting for us to do battle with our own fears.
Again as before; my apologies if my post seems somewhat more convoluted than before; and I know this may be a bit longer and more complicated request than before; but I also think it has very deep relevance to what now we are currently facing concerning Covid, mistrust, and the frightening insecurities that many are dealing with; not only for kids but for grownups as well. You have been so very kind with your thoughts and your time; and please know that what you have shared is so deeply appreciated.
