[jamesn.]

Stephen; this is truly a tremendous response to this topic; full of clarity and most helpful going forward. I have to say I was very confused about what the overlying themes of this topic were; and this post combined with Norland’s very thoughtful and insightful reply; (at least for me); helped to pull many concepts together into a more cohesive whole. (Although I’m still working through much of it.)

Joseph’s themes that many of us are aware of within the general public do not normally address these larger concepts in an accessible way so therefore; just like with the: “collective unconscious” when one uses the term: “collective manifestation” they are like patterns without a bridge to connect them unless one’s understanding of: “Archetypal Psyche” includes the distinction between the singular individual and the wider collective cultural overviews that separate them. Just like the western European psyche is different from the eastern; these cultural divides approach spirituality from two directions; especially concerning the idea of the “Ego”. So my confusion was left without a bridge to the other side which is what this topic addresses. As your post clarifies my starting place with the Hero as “vehicle of the transcendent across time” obviously came up short from what this topic was addressing. And my second part attempted to connect western theological concepts that Joseph had previously addressed within this larger realm also fell somewhat short because I did not fully understand what the overview was laying out as a starting place.

At any rate; I’ll continue in my attempts to better absorb this material while Norland and anyone else takes it from here. Again a masterful post Stephen!

[jamesn.]

Norland; thank you for such a wonderful reply. But after reading through my posts I must say though I’m not very comfortable with my understanding concerning this topic right now; so I’m going to wait a bit before posting anything else at the moment until I have a better view of this.  (Please continue on though since it’s probably because I’ve not quite gotten the jest of things.)

[jamesn.]

Part II:

“We all must live within a system”; was one of Joseph’s clarifications about modern human existence. And his point had to do with how myth would help one accomplish that; not change it but to live within it under whatever kinds of trials and tribulations that one might encounter. The modern technological and social conditions mankind now faces have much to do with the tremendous rate of change whereby what was relevant one moment would evolve into something else at an ever increasing rate of speed so that human society is now in; as he put it: “a freefall into the future”. And by this he meant that the myths that had been the glue that had held them together no longer worked and the individual is thrown back on themselves in learning how to navigate this new landscape they now find themselves in. And here is where his understanding of Carl Jung’s themes begin to come into play along with the ideas of: Adolph Bastian’s local myth (Desi); and universal myth (Marga); Abraham Maslow’s hierarchy of 5 values: survival, security, personal relationships, prestige, and self-development; and Oswald Spengler’s: “Decline of the West”, which had to do with the ever increasing disintegration of western civilization. These have nothing to do with what a mythically inspired person lives for; as he says in: “Pathways to Bliss”; on page 91:

“The beginning of a mythic world or a mythic tradition is a seizure–something that pulls you out of yourself, beyond yourself, beyond all rational patterns. It is out of such seizures that civilizations are built. All you have to do is look at those monuments, and you’ll see that these are the nuttiest things mankind ever thought of. Look at the Pyramids. Just try to interpret them in terms of rational means and aims or economic necessities; think of what it means in a society with the technology of Egypt—which is to say practically nothing—to build a thing that massive. The cathedrals, the great temples of the world, or the work of any artist who has given his life to producing these things—-all of these things come from mythic seizure, not from Maslow’s values. The awakening of awe, the awakening of zeal, is the beginning, and curiously enough, that’s what pulls people together.

People living for these 5 values are pushed apart. Two things pull people together: aspiration and terror. These are what glue a society together.”
________________________________________________________________________________

Joseph goes on to describe some of the mythic themes that informed these early cultures such as the Christian doctrines of salvation from the: “Fall from the Garden” of Original Sin, the Church being the vessel of Grace through Redemption and Salvation with the whole society intertwined around the Church, God, and the business of these ideas where he ends with on: (page, 94): “You have this amazing culture whose whole purpose is to cleanse each individual soul from the terrible error of the disobedience in the Garden of Eden.”

But what he is driving at in my view is humanity has now evolved to a place where these ancient mythologies if read “literally” no longer serve the functions for which they were originally designed; (they are out of date); as Joseph put it in his series of conversations with Bill Moyers in: “The Power of Myth”. So therefore the individual is as he stated: “thrown back on themselves; and must learn to find their own way”. And here is where his idea of one’s: “personal myth” emerges; and with this the psychological ideas of Carl Jung. The template motifs of the: “Journey-Adventure of the (thousand-faced) Archetypal Self/Hero”; or free agent; has now replaced that of the suppliant worshiper of the deity; and the individual has now become the god of their own destiny. And like that of the Hindu Upanishads; the gods are all within; not without. You are one with nature; a strand in the web of life; not a separate entity unto itself dictated on how to live to by a spiritually and psychologically outdated and dysfunctional: “thou-shalt” system. And this is what I would interpret as Stephen’s topic reference to an: “archetypal psyche”; that is if I’m understanding this reference correctly in it’s proper context.

 

 

[jamesn.]

Norland; another great offering you have brought and indeed one of Stephen’s insights for me suggests the: “Archetype of the Hero”.

It’s interesting this topic makes it’s appearance today since the US is in mourning recognizing one of the icons of the Civil Rights movement; “John Lewis”; who like Dr. Martin Luther King has come to symbolize not only the role the hero plays within a particular society; but also the character behind the figure. One might ask: “What is identifiable that evokes the best in human nature whether it be a god or a human being? What is this quality in the Hero; whether mortal or god that makes this timeless symbol so important? And why is this quality also universal? What does it mean to be heroic?”

In in the opening lines of Phil Cousineau’s introduction of the: The Hero’s Journey, (on page, XI); he wrote:

 

Joseph Campbell’s long odyssey through the seas of ancient mythology was as much a spiritual quest as it was a scholarly one. Through his prodigious readings, writings, and travels, as well as his crossroads meetings with many of the country’s most influential men and women. he discovered remarkable parallels in our world’s mythological heritage and reinforcement for the deep conviction he had held since he was a young student that there is a fundamental unity at the heart of nature.

‘Truth is one, the sages speak of it by many names.’ he often quoted the Vedas. To synthesize the constant truths of history became the burning point of his life; to bridge the abyss between science and religion, mind and body, East and West, with the timeless linkage of myths became his tasks of tasks.

‘My hope’, he wrote in his preface to The Hero with a Thousand Faces, ‘is that a comparative elucidation may contribute to the perhaps not-quite-desperate cause of those forces that are working in the present world for unification, not in the name of some ecclesiastical or political empire, but in the name of human mutual understanding.’ ”

__________________________________________________________________

 

So what would the main feature be of the world’s great myths and heros that would clarify their distinction throughout history; and my answer would be: “Transcendent”. “Transparent to transcendence” is a phrase Joseph would often use to describe a message of metaphysical or spiritual quality that could penetrate through the material manifestations that often blocked a deeper interconnecting understanding between different realms of human experience. And these barriers most often were the major difficulties that stood in the way of human understanding. To be clearer my approach has to do with different: (east vs west) outlooks as well as historical barriers of: race, class, prestige, monetary advantage, spiritual disagreement, emotional dislike, or just harmony in general if you will; and these are the kinds of problems the hero most generally faces. There are other hero distinctions of course such as: sacrifice, selflessness, courage, determination; to name but a few; but this one feature I think most properly addresses some of the cross-cultural and historical concerns Norland’s piece and Stephen’s multi-dimensional bridge opens up.

[jamesn.]

Incredible multifaceted response Stephen; thank you for these insights. The “Feather” has been in and out of some of my dreams the last couple of weeks because I have been reading and posting so much on Joseph’s and Jungian material related to some of these themes. I don’t have nearly the background in dream related subjects as you do of course; (you have often been kind enough to shared your thoughts and observations on your journaling over the years); but I do scribble down a few impressions of mine at night when they wake me; (which the Feather has done recently); so I know there is something happening internally which I do need to stay on top of; hence one of the main reasons for the choice of this post.

Key symbols that keep recurring seem to be lynchpins of interrelated dynamics at play within the psyche so I realize archetypal content has been at work. And I know Jung tells us whether asleep or awake we are constantly evolving and these elements are shaping our feelings, thoughts, and different relationships of these various components to each other; (ego, shadow, anima/animus, persona and the larger self-archetype); whether deep in the unconscious when we sleep or within our conscious waking awareness. So I’m trying to become as aware as possible of the presence of some of this inter-play whenever I can; so the reason for this topic seemed appropriate at this moment.

Every few days or so I review some of these impressions I’ve scribbled down along with other thoughts I’ve recorded throughout the days and weeks to get an insight of what’s at work as I go along and it seems to be producing very positive results. And although the blind-spot of our ego-consciousness can sometimes trip us up; the virus pandemic we are dealing with right now for me demands this effort. There is a negative aspect; one becomes more aware of the dark side of things; but the positive side far out-weighs whatever darkness one encounters because not only does one realize how precious each moment of life is; growth and forward movement usually result from whatever efforts are put forth.

What’s amazing to me about these ancient cultural insights is the power and intelligence they reveal in dealing with these timeless human issues; and it seems to me we are at the brink of a great Renaissance of human understanding if we can just come to grips with our modern dark-side. (Notice I said come to grips; not fix it; you don’t fix this because it’s an important component of being human; but you can definitely become aware and integrate some it because that’s part of what Jung is saying.) I’ve lived through some of this human ignorance related to mental illness; and I cannot believe mankind is doomed to live forever dictated by it’s pain and darkness. Joseph and Jung and countless others keep moving us forward; this work is proof of that.

Your helpful insights are always a welcome port in the storm to hear; and I’ll certainly look forward to more of them as we go along. Thanks for sharing them Stephen.

[jamesn.]

Stephen; your 1st example in this topic of Joseph’s use of the Navajo symbolism as related to other cultural interpretations of the psychological and spiritual applications to human life I think is a great starting place to interconnect the human emotional landscape that all people must address. His explanation of their cosmology if interpreted and applied to western motifs; (for instance as with Jeff King in this particular reference); is a perfect example.

I was listening to one of his lectures concerning the archetypal journey of the Hero where he uses one of these symbols; (i.e. the feather); as a reference to a psychological aid to hold to and keep from cracking up as the individual goes through their emotional process. He explains this as the appearance of a secret agent of power that the candidate encounters on their journey who provides them with a secret weapon to hold on to as they travel the path of the razors edge so they won’t fall off.

In the clip below is a further explanation of this Navajo cosmology that you were referring to that broadens out some of these correlations you used as an example. I think your point is a great example of how a psychological crisis in one culture is illustrated in another and their means of coping or resolving them is in so many ways universal as Joseph showed.

[jamesn.]

Oh; Johanna; I love the way you articulate this. In my understanding Joseph illustrates in some of his various lectures; it is like driving a car with a parallax; you are seeing from one side of the road while driving but must also compensate for the other while doing so; as he puts it: (“we must find the middle”); in our interpretations of reality.

In Jungian terminology as with enantiodromia;  it is the adjustment to the other side; eventually finding our psychological center as we come to terms with our ego’s blind spot; our other emotional side. Our ego thinks it’s running the show and doesn’t want to recognize the psyche’s Shadow; that dark side we keep hidden from ourselves with all that painful ugly content buried in what Joseph called: “the landfill” of the personal unconscious; but the “Self as Archetype”; as the total regulating center of the entire psyche; has other plans in it’s desire to evolve and know itself and the “libido” as an agent activates this content to help regulate and balance the flow of psychic energy that has been blocked; (hence a transcendent function is created to break this stalemate); and the tension between these 2 opposing forces; if it can be held; helps to produce a “symbolic 3rd thing” that compensates this tension thereby releasing this energy flow and a new way of looking at things is produced and brought forth thereby enlarging the psyche’s ability for “growth”; which is it’s intent.

Joseph talks about this in several different ways; one of which is when there is an extreme swing to one side this produces an imbalance and so the hero goes forth looking for: “that which is missing” thereby a Quest is initiated. “The Call of the Unlived Life” would be one of these; but there may also be a situation where the Hero is thrown into a situation; (it is not self-initiated); our current Pandemic might be considered as such; it’s totally unexpected but must be dealt with whether alone in it’s isolation or in a group like our society. (Lots of variations of this “Hero theme”); but the challenge is to bring forth the gold of one’s own character in how the challenge is met. Jung tells us: “we are in a constant state of becoming”; and to my way of thinking this translates into: “we are all a work in progress” so to speak; so that the: “transcendent” if we can recognize it informs us.

(As you so elegantly stated):

“For me, humankind has created some of the most beautiful expressions of what this mystery might mean-poetry, fine art, music. Campbell expresses this in his sojourn into the Chartres. It is a sojourn into the mystery that is the transcendent. Poets express using the metaphor-the poet/philosopher Levinas understood this in his ethics of substitution. The metaphor in not the thing-in-itself. Rather it is the thing that points us to the transcendent.

We need not spend our time trapped in the duality we have as humans created. We can experience the full aspect of what it means to be alive. I found that this is profoundly given to us in the film version of Lord of the Rings as the wise man, Gandolph tells Frodo that even Golum [the evil] has a role to play on the grand stage of life.

[jamesn.]

Here is clip 2 from the JCF collection of short snippets covering various themes Joseph addresses that articulates why there is so much confusion and goes even deeper:

[jamesn.]

Yes Johanna; Richard’s point has to do with a metaphoric reference. Joseph in the below clip describes this further in the clip below as a: “category” of thought. Being and non-being he describes as categories of thought; constructs of the human mind that are located within the field of time which he defines as dual. Light and dark; good and evil; and so on because they are opposites and therefore fall into this mode of thinking because human consciousness has created this construct.

Because this format only takes one link at a time without pausing for a moderator to check it for outside spamming possibilities I will post a second clip in a second post where he describes this mythological insight and understanding further.

Clip one from Bill Moyers: “The Power of Myth”:

[jamesn.]

Richard; I definitely hear you on this one; and I’m going to defer to Stephen on any added nuances concerning what Joseph’s final or definitive thoughts were on this. But I definitely have a few which I think have to do with his idea of what he called the: “Left-Hand Path” of the individual quest. One of the things I’ve seen develop over the years as Joseph’s work and ideas have become more well known is there has been a tendency to codify or “thou-shalt” certain: concepts, terms, or themes, that he has become known for within modern culture such as: “follow your bliss”, and “the hero journey, quest or adventure”; so that there has evolved a kind of what he might have called a “virtue manager” approach. In other words it has become in a way personalized or concretized to the extent that a personal must follow a certain kind of strict set of steps or specific order of sequenced experiences for their approach to be validated as: “the way”. So that if something is either left out or done in a way other than this specific prescription it’s somehow inauthentic. And I don’t think that is the message he was trying to explain or deliver at all. As a matter of fact to my way of thinking it goes against his maverick approach to the way he lived; and as a “Comparative Mythologist” in the things he tried to leave behind. One of the things he said was: “There is no one way; there are lots of ways; and you have to decide what you want yours to be.”

What I get from his ideas is that the individual is following their own intuition; and that is paramount because you are not doing what you are “told” but following your own instincts; like a kind of detective solving a mystery; except that mystery is actual your life’s call to you to seek your own destiny; and that destiny is the potential that lies within you that is asking to be fulfilled; and part of the mission you might say is for you figure out what it’s message is telling you and to answer it. And you are the one who gets to decide the meaning of your life; not the religions or the dogmas that surround you; and I think that includes also some of the prescriptions surrounding the way some of Joseph’s ideas have been interpreted. Following your bliss; “the push out of your own existence” as he put it; it’s incredibly hard sometimes; full of agony and heartache and pain; but you get something for staying on that path that’s calling to you; you get the realizations that: this is what I need; this is who I am; and this is where I need to go no matter what; even though sometimes I have no idea what I’m doing!

To know what a metaphor is was one of the main things Joseph stressed concerning religion; and like science there is a new “work in progress” version – like the ever-changing of the seasons of life coming into being all the time. You are unique; and that is an important concern he emphasized; so that to me it would seem like your headache is actually a good thing in the larger picture; and (although probably aggravating); it is a signal you are going through this metaphoric alchemical process of figuring out if you are on the right track or not. Life’s funny like that because sometimes what you think something is saying may really be telling you something entirely different. But seeing the road-signs; reading this mystery road-map “has no script”; and you are figuring it out as you go. (Humor of course can be a great help in all of this; because as he says: “it gives you spiritual distance”; you just may not always feel like laughing at time.) Something definitely worthy of remembering; especially after all the bangs and bruises one accumulates along the way.

History is great for giving us background and a backstory for getting a sense of something; but Joseph spent his life trying to understand the messages of what the world’s myths were saying within a much larger context; they were the metaphors of heros just like we all are to be. Being and non-being are dual; but Joseph’s point was what we are seeking to understand goes past all that. The world is an old old story; and what I get from Joseph is that our job is to figure out our own path; making it up as we go by listening to what’s coming from inside; and that the answers we need will come from following that. And at the end of our journey our life validates those whether those clues that we followed; those experiences that we had; were written by the right author or not; and that author is you just like it is me and everyone else. One can say it’s the one great story; or that we are all interconnected by this “net of gems” or what ever metaphor work’s best; but if we do not answer that call that comes from our own inside how will we ever know it’s relevance to the one life we have been given the privilege to live.

Richard; I don’t know if any of my thoughts adequately address your questions but that is what they seem to be saying to me and I hope they are in small way helpful.

(I’m going to leave a piece of text in a separate post taken from one of my favorite sources for understanding many of Joseph’s ideas that may have some relevance to your questions that is taken from an interview Joseph did for Parabola Magazine back in December of 1976; and since it is now no longer available for view online; it will have the address of the entire piece listed at the bottom for purchase for those who may be interested.)

In case there is a copyright concern and the below (section) of that piece has to be deleted here is that address:
From Parabola Volume 1, No. 2, “Magic,” Spring 1976. This issue is available to purchase here. If you have enjoyed this piece, consider subscribing.

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[jamesn.]

Stephen; thank you for sharing your insights on this; and yes; I think we are living through something very significant right now; something that’s going require us to look deep inside as we try and find our way through. Your thoughts reminded me of Samwise Gamgee’s encouragement to Frodo in Lord of the Rings of what this may ask of us as we move ahead. I tried to find the quote I had stashed away but the clip from the movie will have to do:

 

[jamesn.]

Hey Stephen; sorry I’m a bit late answering this; you and I had already been in touch and as I said then we are “all” so glad about the good news concerning you and your wife’s test results. So as not to take away from your topic on Schopenhauer and Nietzsche’s: “Net-of-Gems” and “Love of Your Fate” themes in relation to this thread I added some Jungian Shadow ideas into the (Breathe) thread so as not to distract from where we left off. (I will say however; that the Pandemic is really starting to dominate public life which makes it somewhat difficult sometimes to get much distance from it as the days and weeks progress.)

For me it has now pretty much integrated into my everyday thoughts about everything since sleep patterns have changed; and pretty much all activities seem to revolve around this crisis. So in some ways I guess one could say” “our love of our fate and life and sense of existence” is beginning to merge into this “new normal”; as it were; especially since time has sort of stopped for many of us since we are forced to be so limited in our movements and the way we must live our lives under these new circumstances. One is constantly challenged to think of new ways to innovate in the things we do and how we go about this business of day to day living; so for me; I’m constantly thinking about the meaning of things in a larger context; not just in the moment.

I try and write a lot when I’m not taking care of life maintenance chores; so this gives me an outlet for these kinds of things; which for me is a great release. Still; I have to admit there are times when things seem so far away from a reachable conclusion to this virus situation that I find myself feeling a bit blue about it all; but I guess that’s to be expected and that’s the challenge it seems to how we extract the important insights we have to struggle through; (if that makes sense). Although every now and then I see someone else who has it really tough; and then my problems don’t seem quite so bad. I’m just glad you’re okay and things in your world are looking better since the good news; and returning to the usual things that need attending to; “welcome back”.

[jamesn.]

Hey everyone; your posts I have been reading have been so inspiring and have addressed so many different aspects that have broadened out this subject I hardly know where to begin. There are several in particular though that I think really focus on what we are dealing with in a very succinct way that have to do with some of the more intense dimensions that are really affecting us in ways we have not been prepared for; namely emotional and psychological; not just physical.

Richard’s incredibly thoughtful article articulates many of the political, sociological, and historical considerations in a breathtaking sweep with a nuanced understanding that informs areas not usually covered. His intricate time-lined approach connects the dots of a comprehensive overview in a way that not only informs but brings many of the often left out historical aspects into play thereby leaving the reader with a much better appreciation of not only where we are now; but how we got here. Really well done and a most welcome addition to this discussion. (Unfortunately it seems the “Snow White” piece did not appear; perhaps a technical issue of some sort is the reason for this mishap.)

Mary; I can’t say enough about your and Richard’s contribution of Brian Swimme’s ideas to the topic; and yes; I think the mask problem is becoming a central issue we are having to deal with; and so much so that it is posing a severe threat for the spread of this virus quite possibly defining in many ways how much of this situation is going to play out at the moment; at least at this stage.

This leads me to Johanna’s point; (whose name I misspelled last time; sorry about that because I couldn’t fix it then because of a technical issue); about the “global” aspect of this virus which to me is a huge deal. Her insights about the mythic, behavioral, and cultural dimensions are important I think; especially where Joseph ideas play into all of this because it underlies how we as psychological creatures respond to this crisis in the way we interpret it. And for me this says: “The Shadow” is now part of the conversation; and Jung’s ideas I think play a big part in this crisis drama we are now living in.

Emotions are extremely ramped up by the anxieties we are all experiencing right now; and because we are all different we are going to experience and perceive it in different ways. Anxiety breeds fear and apprehension which can mean projection of content in how we interpret something. And if there are unconscious elements involved; which no doubt there will probably be depending on the circumstances; then I think it’s important to add this area of subject matter to the discussion.

For instance; being in a closed confined space for extended periods of time with limited access to freedom of movement is going to add tremendous stress to an already emotional charged outlook. And because fear of the unknown; such as; dealing with something you can’t see and it’s possible health threat one is constantly aware of the dangers involved all around them in their everyday movements. Things like: don’t get too close to someone; don’t touch something that might be contaminated; be sure and keep at least 6 feet apart for anyone outside of your safety zone; and the big one: “You need to wear a mask!”

So all day you move about; and every so often you are checking on the latest news report about the current state of the virus and how it is affecting the city you live in. And then there is navigating the outside world where the real danger of infection resides. (Nerve-racking?; you betcha!) There are more issues to add like what is your income and food situation? The people around you and how you get along on a day to day level over long extended periods; and do you have an area to get personal space when needed? Perhaps you are working and there are navigational and workplace concerns; a whole different set of circumstances to add to your situation. For those who are able there is of course lots of computer time on the internet and all kinds of influences to assimilate in your head; and then there is sleep; that is if you are able to because you are always thinking ahead to what’s next. Now for some what I have laid out may seem a bit extreme; but what many may be coming to understand is the term: “New Normal” is a realization that your old world has changed; quite possibly in a very dramatic way and you begin to consider getting back to your old normal may not be possible; and for some this can be a tremendous jolt to their sense of security. And then there are all those things you have buried in your unconscious; what Joseph called the: “landfill”; issues you have pushed down that are now they starting to surface because of all this stress and fear. And they affect you and how you feel about stuff and in the way you interpret things in a not so pleasant way.

Now I don’t want to take this post too far away from the topic at hand; but I think this aspect of the emotional and psychological state people are dealing with as part of this discussion because; IMHO; I think it’s a major factor in the way the pandemic is unfolding; not only for those in one country but: “globally”. And here I think is where we are going to get into this idea of a new myth or way of looking at the world; culturally, biologically, and mythologically. Joseph had a number of thoughts on how he saw the future looking ahead; but he also stressed the individual myth was a major theme he referred to again and again. One of the things he mentions in: “The Power of Myth” is there two things that glue a society together: “aspiration and terror”; and he uses the great 12th century Cathedrals as a spiritual example of what he called: a seizure or madness; And because today’s cultural boundaries are disappearing; as he referred to with Spengler’s: “Decline of the West” he stated: “the individual is thrown back on him/herself and must learn to find their own way; and here is where the Hero/Adventure motif comes into play. So the idea of a new myth he said probably would not come about for a long time; if indeed at all because he said it seemed like this was a new and better way for a global society to come about. (Most of this was covered in Moyer’s POM series.)

At any rate I’ll leave off here and see if this subject is something anyone want’s to pursue in relation to this topic. But I’ve started a separate thread on the Shadow with a couple of clips from the JCF collection of Joseph’s” Mythos I – from the: “Psyche and Symbol” section on Jung for anyone who may be interested listed in the Video section of the Forums.

[jamesn.]

Richard; this is a wonderfully thoughtful and reflective response to Mary’s post; and IMHO further articulates what we need to be thinking about looking forward. Your refinements not only lift and support things we need to be visioning; but the attitude and psychological position necessary to bring any kind of positive change to fruition. Your emphasis on new ways of interpreting and thinking about Joseph’s ideas; (i.e. Brian Swimme for instance who I was not familiar with; thank you for that); speak volumes; and your thought processes behind how they fit into this larger picture move this discussion even further in a direction away from the hopelessness now being experienced by so many who are locked into a frozen state of despair. A despair furthered by political interests who care little for the public welfare at the expense of their loss of power.

As Joseph might frame this situation of turning: “thou’s into it’s”; has brought about an atmosphere that pits one side against the other where our humanity is lost sight of and we have become besieged at the expense of our inability to recognize the blind spot of our societal unknown face. And the tone this situation produces further encourages our collective Shadow-side to rule over “any” efforts to find common ground in the larger arena of our public discourse. Your thoughtful and reflective tone along with Mary’s bring a refreshing and hopeful air to what would normally be a gloomy and depressing topic concerning what is now a “global” pandemic. A topic that like a: “house of mirrors”; leads nowhere but further into a gridlock of endless downward spiraling toward a medical oblivion with this virus leading the way. (This IMHO is a wonderful addition to this topic.) Thank you for this terrific input.

One last thought if I may add is the inspiring tone these new additions bring to this subject; and like a hopeful ray of hope bring sunshine pouring into a window that has long been shuttered by the hopeless despair by which it has been enclosed. (Thank you for your fresh perspective which you have brought to this topic; and I hope more will follow.)

[jamesn.]

Mary; I hope you will allow me to just step back and pause for a moment to take in and assimilate what you have so beautifully and powerfully articulated. Just stunning in it’s breadth and scope and so moving in it’s reach. In so many ways I think you have put your finger on what so many of us are feeling right now. As you suggest it’s not retreating but going inside ourselves to contemplate; to revision; to think about not just what we face; but trying to think about this in a new way. It reminds me of “Pegasus and the Golden Bridle” in relation to hope and our challenges ahead. We absolutely must tame the powers of the dark side within us as Jung saw; and how we will accomplish this I do not know; perhaps others may have thoughts to contribute. But I simply must say again how deeply moved I am by what you have brought to this topic. Thank you!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus

[Author]

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