jamesn.
Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Mary; a quick thank you response to you, Shaheda, and John’s kind references to my earlier offerings. (My computer connection may sabotage me before I finish so I’ll attempt to describe some of my recent thoughts about these “awesome” posts this week. It’s been a real privilege to join in so I’ll try to add something worthy that compliments them.
More and more I keep coming back to the role archetypes play in the different influences the mentor makes in it’s appearance in our lives whether as teacher or mythical advisor. Whether as the (S)elf as the main regulating center of the entire psyche in it’s journey towards wholeness; or as the “ego/self/hero” as the “I” that we perceive with that interplays with: the shadow, persona, anima/animus systems; I think the mentor wears various costumes in influencing our lives. The “wounded-child or wounded-healer”; the Merlin/Crone advisor; the young male as Arthur seeking forth as self/initiator or maiden as young mother or Joan of Arc all represent various characters as vehicles of transformation to the individual lost in the woods with no direction of where to go. The mentor or teacher appears whether: as Obi Wan or Yoda or Gandalf or whatever other figure this form takes as a guide dispensing wisdom of the individual’s inner power they have not yet discovered. Joseph referred to what they may give us as not only a skill but more importantly a: “psychological center” and may also provide a inner commitment course to follow to come to this self-realization.
I also think there are different life stages these archetypes can make their appearance depending on what type of psychological crisis may be occurring; and the “thresholds” that must be crossed for achievement to take place. And whether there is a boon or a transformation to be brought back from the battle with the unconsciousness that must be addressed these mythical figures help to provide the necessary inner tools; (often in the form of some sort of symbol); that will help them in their heroic journey. Joseph talks about some of these forms such as: apotheosis, atonement, the sacred marriage, and the flight of the Promethean fire theft in his discussions with Bill Moyers in: “The Power of Myth” as these are motifs where many of these psychological transformations present themselves.
(One such story with the symbol as tool is the Navajo”: When the two came to their Father”; where a (feather); as a psychological device; is provided as something to hold on to so they won’t (crack-up) on their adventure. This is not the same as the sword; “Excalibur” lodged in the stone which young Arthur must pull out; so these devices and their application may vary. Two of my very favorites of this psychological transformation are Robin Williams’ roles; one as the mental health therapist; Sean Maguire; in: “Good Will Hunting”; and the other as high school English Teacher: John Keating in: “Dead Poet’s Society”. These are definitely mentors worthy of the term for what they exemplify in providing knowledge of these inner terrains that must be traveled; although for different reasons. One for inner healing; and one for the transformation of youth into adulthood.
But to me the chief questions that must be asked are:
“What do these figures and devices symbolize in relation to the individual’s unique quest; what is the mission? What does this adventure or journey symbolize where this figure is conjured forth whether by circumstance or from the unconscious?” (Whether as a real personal relationship; or as a symbolic realization what does this figure or crisis situation represent; what is it’s message?; (And we all need mentors whether we know it or not).
(Okay; so this seemed to work regarding my internet connection and I got it all in. I did a “system restore”; so maybe everything is back to normal; lol). This discussion has been a real thought provoking treat to participate in; so please keep it up!
Stephen; your deep background in Joseph’s work “shines” here and articulates in a much better and more concise way what my feeble version was attempting to convey. Again; my frustrations with my internet connect have probably conjured up some ancient; “God of yore” wanting to have a little fun; so your insights provided a much better job at clarity. (Joseph referred to his computer when talking with Moyers as resembling Yahweh with a lot of rules and no mercy; so perhaps my weakness in this area of knowledge provoked his trickster “humor”; lol) At any rate as you point out; Nandu’s pioneering spirit indeed deserves appreciation for this is often an area where few attempt to venture. Hope my effort did something at promoting interest!
Nandu; my apologies for not being able to finish my post explanations for I’ve been having internet connection problems all week. (I’ll try this again.)
Joseph had no problems with the connection of science to spirituality; at least as I understood him. He saw science as a physical manifestation of what the spiritual was referring to; and that there is no ultimate meaning to existence; but that we provide the context to which these spiritual constructs are referring. The flower of the Buddha’s sermon is a symbol of “isness”; and the idea of “faith” in religion is a concretized interpretation of something that “experience as knowledge” replaces. Science and transcendence are part of the same package. “You” are the God and the creator of your own life; and these symbolic references represent realizations or constructs of consciousness that you are to experience; duality juxtaposes opposites such as God and the Devil; against each other as thresholds to be crossed as working through the various crisis situations you experience. Compassion as opposed to hatred of the other person are actually the war within you that is taking place. That other person is actually “you” as seen from the other side metaphorically. And these levels of consciousness we all must go through refer to these varying points of view within these different spiritual “thou shalt” systems. Some use symbols; some go past them; some exclude them all together. At least this is the way I understood Joseph’s interpretations. This may or may not line up with your thoughts on these ideas. (This took me about 5 attempts to post so it will have to be the best I can do for the moment.) Namaste; my friend.
Here is one more that touches on the same sorts of themes of the way we interpret consciousness as categories of thought; and the way we think about our existence as related to them. The East and West; or some may say: “occident vs orient”; varies widely as he points out about the notion of the “individual vs the collective society”; and have much to do with how these symbols and signs he talks about are interpreted:
Nandu; I don’t know if this clip connects with any of your thoughts about Joseph’s ideas or not; but if nothing else it may be food for thought.
I want to add one last thing about this editorial aspect that may or may not be relative to what we are addressing. For me a lot of what Joseph talks about is concerning our inner landscape and how we interpret it. So much of our lives he suggests from what he found about myth is that many of these experiences we have are constant themes that seem to repeat themselves throughout human history and our inner editor helps us to deal with them. And whether it be through religion or story or motif we are seeking to know who we are and to bring that thing to either fruition, assimilation, or resolution.
I think in many ways our dreams speak to us in a language of symbols and images that remind us this process is what is taking place within our inner life only we are not aware of it; and Joseph’s work recounts this in many ways such as through the historical motifs and patterns he found from a lifetime of studying the worlds mythologies. From the paintings in ancient caves to the texts of the many religions to the incredible art they have left behind so much of this material speaks to this realization of the transformative of the transcendent elements and aspects that may be at work in our lives if only we can see it and become aware of it. And this editor aspect of this 5th function is addressing much of that. Carl Jung said that we as human beings are in a constant state of becoming whether awake or asleep; and these issues and dynamics are constantly at work informing our lives.
I remember Joseph using a metaphor once concerning the psyche and our unconscious and how our conscious awareness is like the captain that steers his craft across the sea and we are doing our best to navigate this great ocean of life we are riding on. At least this is what this editorial function seems to be serving to me.
Wow Mars; such a beautiful articulation concerning much of what I was attempting to describe! To me Joseph’s insights reveal that much of man’s mythological realizations have to do with how they are read or interpreted; they have for whatever reason become concretized or personalized as factual instead of metaphorical; that they are referring to the deep spiritual mysteries and powers that lie within us.
On more than one occasion he pointed out that many of these historical mythologies will work just fine if read another way; (for instance concerning Christianity); he suggests: if read metaphorically this represents a spiritual transformation within you; not something up in heaven or that there is an old man with a not so pleasant disposition telling you what to do because the devil will torment you in hell. No; it’s about the awakened compassion of the heart-life within you; suffering with others as if their pain is your own: “participation with joy in the sufferings of the world; finding within you the rapture of being truly alive; finding your bliss; your greatest joy and following that; not acquiescing to the guilt and shame of some: “thou shalt” system.
One of the things Joseph mentions is thinking of this brief moment of existence we are given as: “participating in a wonder”; but that wonder as Joyce says is also a nightmare from which we are trying to awake; and the way to do that is to participate in the game of life. You play your part in this Grand Opera joyfully and willingly even though you realize it’s going to hurt; (sometimes deeply); and the final end of this great play is death. Religion should point toward a metaphoric way of living; not a command by some imaginary deity with a book of rules that says you are unworthy unless you follow them. These should be interpreted as spiritual insights, not something that demeans science unless it agrees with you. This planet is being torn apart by what Joseph called: “sanctified misunderstanding”.
So here is where this: “little editor” comes in; it’s a discriminating factor within the individual that one uses to distinguish what these finer nuances are that may be directing us without us knowing it. (Click here for an example of that discriminating factor we are discussing where Joseph talks about the difference between a “sign and a symbol” as relates to this 5th editorial function; or “little editor” we all have.) Jung is in there as well as so many of the great spiritual masters who left behind deep insights of these great mysteries that have come down to us through the ages; and this realization we are talking about absolutely includes “Science” as well. Joseph mentions these insights as something we build on and there is a new version each season.
My point was these new changes are accelerating so fast that man can hardy keep up; and Joseph refers to this new reality we now have to navigate as this: “free fall into the future”; and that many of these old myths have to be read in a new way; and that each individual is a free agent; not a slave. This idea of a “personal myth” is what he is referring to; it’s saying God is within you; and that “little editor” helps you to navigate this powerful mystery we are all riding on. In the DVD documentary about Joseph Campbell: “The Hero’s Journey”; there is a discussion section with a small group of people sitting on the floor where Joseph goes into great detail about this; (he doesn’t actually say “little editor”; but he is making this case quite seriously and provides examples that reveal these finer distinctions in a very accessible way.
At any rate; this was my feeble attempt at this description; and I thought you articulated some of these things really well. I would heartily recommend the DVD and the companion book as well because they continually help me in fleshing so many of his ideas where normally I would be just lost in the forest. My apologies for my earlier post attempts since I had to keep going back and rewriting them; and I’m still not quite satisfied with these results I’ve put down here; but that’s what having these discussions are all about; and Stephen has been doing such a tremendous job in getting these new Forums off the ground! (He or others may have some new things to add; so I’ll stop here.)
John; you are most kind in your thoughtful response. Hillman’s: “Daimon” from the Soul’s Code I like a lot. The Male Tigers in my life; although some longer than others in time spent; were important in their influence and presence. Each had their gifts they bestowed; as did the privilege of the Crones. The Senex as guide when I think of him now takes on a different form than as a young boy; the man must also think differently than just as a warrior-hero role for induction into life; for I was also introduced to a more gentle and thoughtful perspective; as someone like Atticus Finch as well as magicians and noble Knight Errands. The world changes even though there are constants to be patterned after; and one of the most important things I learned from Joseph’s ideas was that one’s own interpretation of life must be developed as well. “This is the left-hand path of the maverick way”; the one who must often go into the forest without counsel to find their own path. The modern world may borrow from the old; but the new has it’s own realities that must be incorporated as well.
I came to Joseph’s work later than many and the influence of them all; both male and female was rekindled. The life experience of those among us we often never know much about; and I’m constantly reminded after Joseph’s influence that what I see and experience from others is only a part of what may actually lay hidden from view. Their heartache and suffering as well as my own may mirror parts of something of which I may be only partly aware; and though my own blind spots may be in the way; it was Joseph’s connection to Jung that helped to open a doorway or a window into a much deeper understanding of myself and those around me. We grow up in a culture that provides only partial instruction for what life may hold; and our trajectory may lead us down many paths; but it’s mystery; as Joseph suggests; may intervene and cause unforeseen circumstances to dictate something else of which we have no idea.
Most of my own life I had to learn to be my own hero; but I did not know of Campbell’s existence. I had already found a life path but that is only part of the task to be completed; one must then incorporate and face whatever difficulties that may lie ahead by taking this journey into deeper realms as the Sun-Chariot crosses over one’s life meridian toward old age; and part of that life journey was only beginning. Life crisis situations can take many forms; some of mine included great loss; including losing the family house and taking on yet more tasks; and a revisit from other former crisis may sometimes be included as I was to find out more than once. This particular one involved losing one’s berings; which Joseph calls the: “long season”; where a rebuild is in order. I was completely lost and for two years tried every religion or change of perspective I could think of. As Joseph said about religion: “these paths can often lead nowhere”; and one day walking the several miles back home from a church which held nothing for me but a brick wall in deeply depressed reflection; upon reaching home turned on the television to find Joseph Campbell talking to Bill Moyers and my world just stopped; “who was this person that could speak in a voice where everything suddenly made sense?”; and from then on everything changed. That was 1988; and my life has never been the same.
One of the great joys has been sharing this new world with those who have the same love for his work; and it continues to transform my life ever since. So in another sense you could say Joseph has become a mentor to me. And others I suspect may feel the same way. There is something he talks about where the calamities in ones life may actually be the defining moments; but it is only after looking back in later life this realization becomes apparent. This was one of the most important moments of my understanding of where it all started; and like the realization of: (” the Marga” or animal path back to it’s den) Joseph mentions; what appeared on the outside was not the true reflection of what happened on the inside. Every day I am more and more grateful for discovering Joseph Campbell; for in my mind his mentorship has saved my life from where it had begun so very long ago; and this appreciation will stay with me till my journey’s end. Everyone has a journey they are on; thank you for your kind thoughts regarding mine.
Stephen; thank you for bringing this up:
“All of us can point to elder tigers that have been formative in our lives. They are those who offered well-timed words of wisdom. They are those who introduced us to new food, food which we might have initially rejected, but later came to love. They are those who helped us see who we really were and returned to remind us when we began to lose sight of it. One of the unintended ironies of Campbell telling this story, of course, is that he has served as the elder tiger for so many. Scores of seekers have come to understand who they are a result of his words. I never got the opportunity to meet Joseph Campbell in person, though he has influenced me greatly. I have been fortunate enough to meet people who knew him, and who have dedicated themselves to seeing his work sustained. One of those men has invested in me over the past year. He has been that elder tiger — a Tiger King of sorts — more interested in my maturation than his own ego. He has seen things in me that I was unable to see in myself, and I am forever grateful. He knows who he is, and I am confident he will read this. I’ve tried to take every opportunity I can to let him know about my appreciation of his investment because we live in a world where people tend to hear plenty about what others dislike about them and far too little about what they do. It’s crucial that we honor our elder tigers, and that eventually we, too, take the time to guide younger cubs that we encounter to that quiet lake and invite them to see who they really are.”
The above was so movingly stated.
Unfortunately most of my Elder Tigers are gone; but I now have new ones to learn from. But the memory of the old ones live on within me!Greetings Dr. Bucher, and a most warm and hearty welcome and so glad you are here. Along with Stephen’s thoughtful opening suggestions you have started this conversation off with many things to consider.
First off this subject reminds me of the Senex/Crone Archetype which has many manifestations; some of which would be the “Mentor/Sage” or wisdom guide; but in more human context might be that of an “Elder figure” who passes on wisdom; but I was also reminded by your suggestion that the: “Wounded Healer”; could be another form it presents itself.
One of the most important set of examples of this archetype growing up was that of the: “Person behind child”; this was someone who represented some kind of relationship to the child that could give them a long range sense of themselves; that could take on obstacles without losing their sense of direction in accomplishing their goals. A relationship that told them: “Don’t give up; don’t quit; you can do this! A kind of: “can do” attitude that gives them a sense of self-worth and belief in themselves that they not only have value as individuals; but they also have something to offer to the world; a boon or perhaps something the world lacks that is their gift. (So when I first encountered Joseph’s work from a crisis I was experiencing this rung me like a bell!)
I was particularly moved by your suggestions that mentors are everyday people and are all around us if we can only have the eyes to recognize them; both as student; but more importantly as potential teachers. Your point about being a mentor; but being unsure if the qualities are there was especially helpful for as you pointed out the need now is so great in modern society that so many of our youth are left without the emotional support they so desperately need to find themselves. It is not just a skill that is taught; but: (that self-knowledge and psychological center that Joseph talks about that their inner hero is to exemplify); it’s an understanding there will be hurdles to overcome and inner dragons to battle and darkness to navigate; but there will always be the memory of their guide(s) that whispers to them; “yes you can”!
I also think these mentor relationship(s) may be either male or female; not just gender related; for how many males have had: mothers, aunts, and grandmothers as mentoring elderhood figures, as well as men; and these bonds that are formed from these deeply personal friendships in our lives have provided meaning, purpose, and insight where those of our own gender could not? But most of all I think if we are lucky we can have the privilege of having more than one mentor to help us; and maybe then by learning from others we too can become that person you suggested: “it’s who you are in someone’s life”; not just: “what you do”.
I so much enjoyed your post and look forward to hearing more of your offerings on this. Namaste
_____________________________________________________________________________________Traci; I have a suggested resource that might be helpful in your quest. Maureen B. Roberts has a wonderful Facebook discussion group called: “Psyche, Myth, and Archetype”. It’s a closed group set up specifically to explore and share meaningful material and experiences concerning these kinds of interests. It’s tremendously supportive for both female and male participants, and covers a huge range of topics focused on mythical and other related material for people to share. It’s got somewhere around 5,000 members so there is a rich ongoing conversation; (that is strictly monitored); so the usual social media behavior is always: warm, cordial, and inviting.
(Your category of interest comes up regularly concerning similar mythically related pursuits. I highly recommend this group because it is one of my favorites and I go there all the time.) Just a thought to consider if you’re interested.
One last thing I meant to mention concerning the 5th editorial function that myth is suppose to serve. Michael Lambert; who served as moderator on the old CoaHO created a special thread on discourse where he explored some of these issues in tremendous detail; and one of the points he continually brought up was that of the “little editor” we all carry in our head that filters anything that it’s exposed to. This editor decodes data it receives from the other systems in the psyche which is expressed by certain reflexes into different forms; emotional, mental, physical, and a response is triggered. Now to me this “little editor” would play a huge role in some of what we have been talking about; and what first struck me so profoundly about the connection between our sense of what we experience and what happens after that within our psyche.
____________________________________________________________________________
An addendum; I realized after reading over this rather confusing collection of material perhaps an example or two in story form might help. So let’s envision the “little editor” is a hero character thrown into some kind of mystical situation where there are all kinds of different creatures and characters and cultures this (editor) must “assimilate” to navigate this strange new landscape he or she finds themselves in. Well; because there are many “once upon a time” tales to choose from you could start off with fantasy fairy tales like: “Alice in Wonderland” or the “Wizard of Oz”; or you could look at Science Fiction like: “Star Trek” or “Star Wars” or the mythical world of Tolkein’s: “Hobbit” or “Lord of the Rings” trilogy; or any number of others. But my point has to do with (assimilation of a wide range or assortment of data to put into a coherent whole); the “little editor” does this by “instinct”; (How is that?); it’s because it serves a certain “function”.
Joseph: “From studies of mythology and past civilizations done by Joseph Campbell, at least five functions stand out as needing to be fulfilled by images, rituals, and institutions of a society. They are the mystical, the cosmological, the sociological, the pedagogical or psychological, and the editorial functions.”
Stephen: “I’d like to zero in on that last function, which doesn’t appear elsewhere in Joseph Campbell’s work:”
___________________________________________________________________Stephen and Mars; I think maybe (both) concerning your response to his post: especially concerning how “memory” may play into all of this; and I’ll attempt to lay some of this out.
(Stephen):
” (“Zero in,” by the way, is an American idiom for “focus one’s attention”; “nullifying the datum” is an intriguing spin, but if you think that’s what someone means if they say this in conversation, there will be major misunderstandings).
Your example of perceiving time as moving in one direction definitely speaks to this question – indeed, seems a blind spot common to most humans, apart from those experiencing altered states of consciousness. That strikes me as more a result of biological limitations than cultural conditioning, but certainly is something we don’t see – though we can imagine it.”
___________________________________________________________________(I had to rewrite the following post because my first attempt was just too unorganized.)
___________________________________________________________________I think your observation about the biological plays into this but how we perceive and react from the wide range of differences in our individual makeups; physical age, psychological development, and cultural background may vary widely both as to mental, cultural, and biological differences. Why? Because modern demands have become so great that they have altered societies usual interpretation concerning perception of one’s reality; both social and individual. In other words the way something is actually experienced can be from completely different viewpoints in which modern social development has undergone enormous change. And this would have a huge amount of variation concerning reconciling these various realities. Joseph called this: (“a free fall into the future”). To me the bridging of varying perceptions becomes a major concern because the modern world has put such huge demands on interconnecting cross-cultural as well as diverse modes of interplay that the psyche becomes disoriented; and memory without meaning becomes lost without direction.
(Let me say this another way that Joseph helped to point out.) “Cultural” borders have dissolved and the “myths” that held them together no longer apply. Technology has had such an enormous impact over the decades; and with the ever-increasing population growth and increased complexity of social development that the editorial function has had to absorb; “memory” as well as normal decision making becomes overtaxed in finding meaning, making decisions, and communicating.
For instance as a point of reference; the orient vs the occident; male vs female, light vs dark, young vs old, are all dualities; opposites that makeup polarity; but there are shades of differences that can be important in application as to their relevance to a problem to be solved or perception to be understood; and if you add technological demands adds further stress to an overtaxed system. So how would technology play into this? The ever accelerating speed of technological growth has pushed through the old boundaries that myth usually informed. Joseph referred to this as the: “airport society” where one could fly anywhere in the world in a matter of hours; and man’s understanding is no longer contained within the cultural boundaries of his older society. After I got through reading my usual “internet” newsfeed I saw so many communication problems concerning so many of these types of polarities; I think Stephen’s topic of a 5th “editorial function” is a big deal. To me I would call this situation: overloaded “cross-pollination” between polarities; which would require a more complex bridging between a larger range of an individual’s memory capacities.
The point I’m attempting to describe is it was only after thinking on this subject for the last few days that the it struck me how all these different variables could be tied together into one topic issue; which both of you are exploring concerning this 5th “editorial” function. Now whether any of this could be tied to affecting a mental disorder such as: schizophrenia, dementia, psychosis, neurosis, or some other “psychoid -factor” since they all deal with perception and “memory” I have no idea. But because from a Jungian viewpoint these would have “archetypal” influences and might also include the “shadow” as well as the normal functioning ego I think possibly it might. I’m am not a medical doctor nor an analyst but I would think from what I interpret of Joseph’s views because now you have Jungian as well as the wide range of psychological dynamics that he saw this sort of thing as a coming concern because humans need meaning when navigating chaos. So now you have Joseph’s idea of a “personal myth” as navigator as opposed to a “cultural” myth.
I hope this is a little clearer than my last unorganized attempt.)
Yes Mars; but this is not what Patrick is addressing as the subject of his project; (at least as I see it). This is about finding and following that: “push from your own inside, your sense of your own destiny, the thing that tells you: (I am that) and I am going to follow it because it informs me about who and what I can be; it’s what I must do because in my heart and gut it represents what my inner truth of existence tells me I must do to be alive.” This is what the “follow your bliss” theme is all about; it’s not about following money.
Yes; we all have to live; so we do things that produce money so we can eat and pay the bills and the rent so we can survive; but survival is not about meaning; survival is about mere existence; life eating life; finding meaning in the way we live is about something else. And Joseph talks about the rapture of being alive; not just getting a job that doesn’t do these kinds things. Yes; work in itself is a noble thing if understood from a certain perspective; you feed and house your family because you love them; but he also suggests that as human beings there is more to living than getting on a tread mill that goes nowhere to earn a paycheck. Every person needs something that helps them to express and fulfill this inner need we all have; and that’s the Bliss Path he is pointing out; not buying a lot of stuff and going into debt because that’s what everybody else does. Consumerism is outer stuff based on consumption and does not give the inner value human beings long for; and this is the theme Patrick is addressing in my view; at least from what I’ve seen so far.
Now saying that; figuring out how to accomplish this task is part of the challenge that the Quest may entail because each life is different; and going into your dark forest to find your journey’s end goal is going to present some hurdles for any person to overcome. So what is this have to do with finance? On page 111; in: “Pathways to Bliss”; Joseph says this:
“In the west you have the liberty and obligation of finding out what your destiny is. You can discover it for yourself. But do you?
Of course, it doesn’t hurt to be blessed with the accident of money, and a certain amount of support, and a margin of free time. But let me say this: people without money very often have the courage to risk a life of their own, and they can do it. Money doesn’t count, it’s not that important in our culture; it really isn’t.
I’ve taught students of all financial strata and the most fortunate are not always the very wealthy ones. In fact they’re very often the least fortunate because there is nothing to drive them. A very common experience is a student who has all kinds of possibilities and talents and essentially limitless money and becomes nothing more than a dilettante. The student is not forced to follow one path, to make a decision: “I’m going to do this.” As soon as what they’re doing gets difficult, as soon as it begins to get to the crunch, he or she moves over into another pursuit, and another, and another. They just splash their lives all over. Very often a youngster without the margin to do that makes the intelligent, courageous decision and follows it through.”
In Diane Osbon’s: “Reflections on the Art of Living – A Joseph Campbell Companion”; on pages; 58-60; Joseph talks specifically about money; and then for the next 22 pages he talks about all kinds of various things related to how one’s life course is a manifestation of this quest and some of the hurdles one is going to run into; (including that of the Grail Adventure); and shares personal examples of how these themes interfaced with his own life experience. So this is not some kind of fantasy fairy tale that is being offered for amusement; it’s life supporting stuff that offers a personal perspective from his own life how this thing can be accomplished. But he warns this path may be dangerous; it may include risks and all kinds of difficult challenges; but it can be done. Why is this important?; it’s important because having a life of one’s own on their own terms instead of following social norms is what it’s all about. It’s not about acquiescing to a: “thou shalt – system”; but living out of your own center and finding that thing that moves you and living it.
I think one of the things that pulls people off course is this stereotype of fame and financial success; that the image instead of the substance behind it gets in the way of seeing and understanding what it’s meaning represents instead of the façade of the mask in front of it that distorts it’s value. Jung warns that persona is not who we are; but I think the point in all of this is to find and live what our heart is calling us to do. Joseph said in: “The Power of Myth” concerning answering this call to adventure: “to go where your heart and soul want to go”; to answer this deep yearning inside that speaks to you in a language that only you understand.
So answering this thing that’s pulling inside you is more than likely going to involve some kind of uphill battle to get to where you want to go involving finances. Now there is one other thing Joseph mentioned within the book and that is money is not the real issue because he knew a lot of wonderful wealthy people whom he really liked; and money was not the problem but often it was what you did with it. And in the overall grand scheme of things there are going to be different aspects of this financial problem that are not going to all line up where the holes all run through; so don’t judge. So I think the real issue in all of this is to look inside to try and find what is calling you; because as he mentions on pages; 58-59; he states:
“If you follow your bliss you will always have your bliss. money or not. If you follow money, you may lose it, and you will have nothing.”
So I don’t know if Patrick’s movie is going in this direction or not; but this is what my understanding of what this financial incentive is dealing with that Joseph is speaking about; and why to me it’s so critically important to know the difference. I think it’s a terrific subject that points out much of what’s wrong with the value system that confuses people into thinking making money is more important than finding the life they yearn to live; and getting off your track just to get money alone will pull you away from that. We all have things that are important that making money supports; but answering that challenge is going to be one of the central concerns in resolving this issue while at the same time following that which informs us about who we are.
Because this has been such an important and rewarding conversation Stephen suggested that maybe we should continue on this path that Patrick has opened up by starting another thread on his new upcoming film:” “What is Money?” Joseph had some very specific ideas about this subject; and in honor of Patrick’s inspiring dedication to Joseph’s work that it would appropriate to explore this further in this new topic now listed within this same forum and now open for discussion. There is a short YouTube clip he prepared that explains his intentions about this project included in the opening setup of the topic. Thank you again Patrick for all your dedication and hard work.
Stephen; how kind of you to spot this and recommend it for this topic. I was stunned at the timing because I was recently looking at Patrick Slaughter’s book you brought up before and after reading your post just now went ahead and put my order in. What synchronistic moment I think for your idea about this; and after perusing the table of contents on Amazon it seems to be the perfect companion to compliment the subject. I will leave the link below for any others who want to check it out. Btw; you mentioned an online video chat when you posted that; were you able to participate?
This article you brought is a great idea for reviving this topic and your thoughtfulness is definitely appreciated! Here is the link:
