jamesn.
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Dennis; if you’ll allow me; it has been a real privilege to have you among us and share your deeply sensitive and considered knowledge with us. Your insights have been both meaningful as well as helpful not only in our understanding of how to apply writing to our individual journeys; but your kindness that shows through in every word.
Norland; this applies to you also. The deep well you draw from through you scholarship has been so very appreciated throughout these discussions; and I hope we will continue to hear more from both of you as these discussions move forward. As Dennis suggests the world is in deep need of all of us right now to think in a different way as the ongoing concerns we face continue to challenge our humanity in ways never before encountered. (Especially concerning Covid and it’s effects on all of us in a multitude of ways we could have never conceived.) Thank you both sincerely for what you bring to the table for us to consider looking forward from here! Namaste
Hello Stephen; I’m posting in this thread this morning because I hope people will take a look at your inventory of Dream book suggestions and encourage a more extended conversation around this. We’ve been talking about Dream material in a couple of other threads and the suggestions you’ve made have been extremely helpful and perhaps others will add theirs as well. Last night is a perfect example which I will explain more at length what I’m getting at. (Many of these insights about this as well as the following comments you’ve already covered.)
So last night we were having a small group discussion off Forum about Dreams concerning different areas and Dennis Patrick Slattery’s book called: “Riting Myth Mythic Writing” was one of the topics as well as other strategies for approaching Dream work after which I went to bed. As luck would have it this topic appeared in my dream in the form of a shadow confrontation with a large male figure in a mirror arguing with me about what I knew. Well; upon confronting this figure he did not like my response to this; got angry and started throwing things then stormed off. Upon waking I immediately jotted a few things down about this and then went over to my little library of Dream resources you have been recommending; (including some of the Robert Johnson Active Imagination and Shadow material along with Slattery’s book and began researching some of the themes these images seemed to represent). It occurred to me that people cross-referencing resources as well as techniques might be helpful in exploring our inner landscapes and how these things manifest not only in our daily lives but might also be helpful to those just starting out.
For instance the chapter in Slattery’s book on the: “Wounded Self” and Johnson’s: “Inner Work” concerning the Shadow; along with James Hillman’s: “The Souls Code – In Search of Character and Calling” and his idea of the Diamon were enormously helpful in getting an insight into some of what was in play in my Dream. Seeing one’s unknown face in a mirror was difficult but necessary in understanding how a symbol or narrative was playing out in my life and trying to develop a dialogue with this figure and the results were quite revealing. We don’t like to see our dark selves; especially if they are behaving badly; and listening to them is not easy.
Jung and Campbell would probably offer much to say about this; but my point refers to something Joseph mentioned in Diane Osbon’s: “Reflections on the Art of Living – A Joseph Campbell Companion” included in the poetic arrangement of quotes on pages: 16-26; (“If you want the whole thing the gods will give it to you. But you must be ready for it.”) I was taken by surprise to this revelation with my reaction to my dream because my Shadow was telling me something about myself I didn’t realize; and if I hadn’t had the reference books it would have been much more difficult to track it down. Also the Eric Ackroyd book: “a dictionary of Dream Symbols” has been very helpful as well.
There are others from your list and previous recommendations I have on my list as I can afford them; and they are opening a doorway that would have been inaccessible without this prior knowledge of what to get. During our Covid lockdown the library has not been an option since being a senior I’m still waiting on my vaccination. At any rate I hope others will share their suggestions and Dream input as well. Thanks again for all your helpful advice.
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“I am going to add an addendum book suggestion that is highly thought of that may be of some help and Stephen is familiar with called: “The Book of Symbols – Reflections on Archetypal Images” by Taschen. I believe some of the images that were used came from Joseph’s private collection.
As a special tribute to Dennis and his work with teaching about personal mythology I would like to post a link to a special hour long lecture he gave specifically explaining about the many different aspects of this topic which is “extremely” insightful. Dennis if I may say how very fortunate we have been to have you among us for this brief time and hope you’re next visit will not be too long in forthcoming. Namaste
Shaheda; I’m adding a short promotional clip of the: “The Man Who Killed Don Quixote” because it gives an really good feel of the character surrounding this main figure which has come to represent the “Impossible Dream”. If you are familiar with the story his psychosis touches you poignantly in but in an inspiring way; and Jonathon Price’s depiction is magnificent along with Adam Driver’s Sancho Panza which takes this modern adaptation and puts a brand new spin on it. Joseph mentions in “The Power of Myth” that the “world is a wasteland” and Quixote was important because the modern technical world disorients people; and Quixote’s heroic psychosis of chasing windmills saves The Quest of this Adventure of the Hero for himself even though everyone around him thinks he’s crazy. In other words he represents something noble in the human spirit.
Shaheda; this is the central question that drives the whole “individuation” process Jung proposes: “What is my (personal) myth?” Dennis quotes Jung when asking: “What am I about?” Both Joseph and Dennis start off by referencing Jung’s statement from “Memories, Dreams and Reflections”. In the book: “The Hero’s Journey”, on pages 81-82; Joseph mentions this:
“And Jung asked himself by what mythology he was living and he found he did not know. And so he said, “I made it the task of tasks of my life to find out by what mythology I was living.”He had been talking about Adolf Bastion’s distinctions between 2 separate definitions of myth; desi; which is the folk; and Marga; which is the universal or elementary idea. He then says: “So the desi, the folk, guide you into life, and marga, the elementary, guide you to your own inward life. Mythology serves two purposes that way.”
There is more describing this within the text; but for our purposes of naming things it might be helpful to refer back Dennis’s statement in the other thread about the difference between an Archetype and an Archetypal Image where the first informs the other:
” Steve. I think we might speak about an archetype and an archetypal image. The former is universal and constant, but the image it is birthed in is organic and dynamic. I believe Jung writes that archetypes are shaped and formed into an image depending on the cultural pressures that work on it as it comes into being. So, paradoxically, the archetype is unchanging and changeable, shaped by the particular cultural impressions that work on it.”
Joseph’s friend; writer: “John Steinbeck” named his pickup truck: “Roscinate”; which was the name of Don Quixote’s horse. That represents more than just an animal; that symbolized something to him just like the name: “Gander” did to Joseph’s little VW bug. (Although not previously knowing this I had also named my pickup “Roscinate” as well because it symbolized the musical Quest I was on). Don Quixote was this crazy old fool who was on a mission from God to restore chivalry to save the world; and Roscinate; this old nag; was his mount. Quixote’s spiritual quest was the symbol that informed the image of the vehicle one just named so to speak. So we name things that represent some kind of of symbolic representation in various situations. These things can evoke something; whether meaningful or not is up to the person that names it.
So back to the “personal myth” aspect where I will try to connect the two. The last few days weeks I’ve been going through various stages of personal reflections related to this pandemic and feeling rather frustrated. So yesterday I put together a few thoughts together with a copied article concerning different mental states and added a separate link to something that always picked me up when I view it that lifted my mood considerably; yet there was still melancholy afterwards because I learned of the passing of the character. Then later in the evening I came across a clip of rather recent rendition of the movie: “The Man Who Killed Don Quixote”; when after viewing it I went to sleep and woke up seeing the connections between humor, depression, and my Quest; (symbolized by Don Quixote). This may seem a rather disjointed configuration of ideas but it’s all related to the mental process of assimilation concerning my personal myth.
________________________________________________________________________________“Extistential Angst, Enni, Weltscmerz and Henri”
Below I’am going to leave to two items that may or may not counter-balance each other concerning today’s mental and emotional state and the ability to change one’s perception on how they see themselves within their inner life and how they navigate the current Covid Pandemic. One is an article from 2016 posted on mentalfloss.com and the other is a video clip from Will Braden’s – Henri the Extistential Cat series. One describes the various mental states that are often confused and the other uses humor to adjust one’s perspective.
_______________________________________________________How to Tell Whether You’ve Got Angst, Ennui, or Weltschmerz
BY ARIKA OKRENT AUGUST 3, 2016
English has many words for the feelings that can arise when a good, hard look at the state of the world seems to reveal only negatives. Hopelessness, despair, depression, discouragement, melancholy, sorrow, worry, disconsolation, distress, anxiety …there are so many that it would hardly seem necessary to borrow any more from other languages. But English never hesitates to borrow words that would lose certain subtleties in translation, and angst, ennui, and weltschmerz have made their way into English by offering a little something extra. Have you got a case of one of these imported maladies? Here’s a little guide to help you diagnose.Angst
Angst is the word for fear in German, Dutch, and Danish. It comes from the same Indo-European root (meaning tight, constricted, painful) that gave us anguish, anxiety, and anger. In the mid 19th century it became associated with a specific kind of existential dread through the work of the Danish philosopher Søren Kierkegaard. He talked about a type of anxiety that arises in response to nothing in particular, or the sense of nothingness itself. It’s not exactly fear, and not the same as worry, but a simple fact of the human condition, a feeling that disrupts peace and contentment for no definable reason. The word was adopted into English after Freud used it as a term for generalized anxiety. Now it carries shades of philosophical brooding mixed with a dash of psychoanalytic, clinical turmoil. While anxiety and angst are often interchangeable, anxiety foregrounds a feeling of suffering (also present in angst), while angst foregrounds dissatisfaction, a complaint about the way the world is.
Are you dissatisfied and worried in an introspective, overthinking German way? You’ve got angst.Ennui
Ennui is the French word for boredom. The English word “annoy” comes from an early, 13th century borrowing of the word, but it was borrowed again during the height of 18th century European romanticism, when it stood for a particular, fashionable kind of boredom brought on by weariness with the world. Young people at that time, feeling that the promises of the French Revolution had gone unfulfilled, took on an attitude of lethargic disappointment, a preoccupation with the fundamental emptiness of existence. Nothing mattered, so nothing roused the passions. By the middle of the 19th century, ennui became associated with the alienation of industrialization and modern life. Artists and poets suffered from it, and soon a claim to ennui was a mark of spiritual depth and sensitivity. It implied feelings of superiority and self-regard, the idea being that only bourgeois people too deluded or stupid to see the basic futility of any action could be happy. Now, in English, though it is defined as “a feeling of weariness and dissatisfaction,” ennui also has connotations of self-indulgent posturing and European decadence. Are you tired, so tired of everything about the world and the way it is? Do you proclaim this, with a long, slow sigh, to everyone around you? You’ve got ennui.Weltschmerz
Weltschmerz, German for “world pain,” was also coined during the Romantic Era and is in many ways the German version of ennui. It describes a world weariness felt from a perceived mismatch between the ideal image of how the world should be with how it really is. In German philosophy it was distinguished from pessimism, the idea that there is more bad than good in the world, because while pessimism was the logical conclusion of cool, rational philosophical pondering, weltschmerz was an emotional response. Though weltschmerz and ennui are pretty close synonyms, ennui foregrounds the listlessness brought on by world weariness (it can also be a term for more simple boredom), and weltschmerz foregrounds the pain or sadness. There is perhaps a greater sense of yearning in weltschmerz (part of the pain is that the sufferer really wants the world to be otherwise). Also, as an English word, weltschmerz is not as common as ennui, so there are fewer connotations about the type of person that comes down with it. Its very German sound (that “schm”!) makes it seem more serious and grim than ennui.
Do you have sadness in your heart for the world that can never be and sensible shoes? You’ve got weltschmerz.
_____________________________________________I am leaving a link that contains two clips out of the dozens that exist along with a short article concerning Henri’s recent passing. Henri was loved the world over for his wisdom and his world-weary detachment. If you are not familiar with Henri’s celebrity you will soon fall under his spell that will make you laugh and give you a sense that life is still worth living no matter how depressing things may seem. His millions of fans have for years shared videos and will miss him terribly.
I did some YouTube searching through Dennis’s lectures and came across this “gem” and it is not to be missed!
Shaheda; here is one representation of the Spiral Joseph describes in this short clip from the JCF YouTube channel. But as I was mentioning these are huge symbolic subjects with different applications. (Especially concerning the Labyrinth at Chartres Cathedral which has a connection to the Greek version.) Dennis is much more informed on this than I am so it will be interesting to hear if he has any thoughts he would like to share on this subject. Stephen or anyone else is invited to join in on this connection between the two as well.
As I mentioned these two symbols earlier in the thread I will restate the request so as to cut down on any confusion because we have a lot going on here. Below is the quote:
“I particularly like the image you use of the Spiral; which reminds me of the: “Ariadne thread and the Labyrinth” as symbolic of one’s inner journey of transformation; and I very much look forward to your thoughts on this. Again a warm welcome and so glad you are here.”
(Stephen; that rocked!)
“I don’t know if that really answers your question, Robert, but we’ll toss that in the stream of consciousness and see what eddies ripple out from there.”
Robert; Stephen or Dennis can probably help you with this:
What sources do you think Jung’s and the apostles Paul’s subconscious unconscious draw from ???
Indeed Shaheda; that one grabbed me too:
Stephen:
Second, I wanted to offer a glimpse into how Campbell approached symbols as more than just words on a page. He thought of a mythic symbol as “an energy-evoking and -directing agent” generating a response that “bypasses the brain and dilates the heart.” As but one example among many, whether a playful nickname for his car or a paperweight he kept on his desk, the image of the gander works on the unconscious as well as consciousness.Okay; now I get it! Thanks Stephen; yes; I was a bit unclear on that. And I also loved the video as well.
Shaheda; your questions to Dennis should be very interesting and helpful for I’m not familiar with the inside out sleeve reference you mentioned.
However; I should add concerning my cross references between the Spiral and the Labyrinth with the Ariadne thread was related to the important floor depiction of Chartres Cathedral that is used as a meditative device. This can be a very large topic and I should have been a lot more specific. Although not a true Spiral per se; in this particular case it represents a metaphoric inward spiritual journey often referred to in spiritual pilgrimages. Joseph loved Chartres and spent much time there which he talks about in his conversations with Bill Moyers in “The Power of Myth”. This link shows other Labyrinths as well.
Mary; if you’ll allow me I think Stephen addressed your deeply poignant response so better than I possibly could. This conversation is just delightful to experience and so many contributions with such meaningful connections is just a joy to behold. Wow!
(This reminds me to something Michael Toms used to referring to when talking with Joseph. He said: “we were just soaring!”) Pjh1 mentioned Joseph’s words “sing”; well there seems to be a very nice chorus in play at the moment!
Everyone; I simply cannot over emphasize how much I love Stephen’s articulation of this area we have been discussing in relation to the larger topic. This along with the pictures that have been added really open up this intimate connection of the personal to the larger realms Joseph describes. It’s like he is right here with us. Stephen; this is truly such a wonderfully inspired post; thank you!
I want to add an addendum to specifically clarify the distinctions I was referring to between the Right and Left hand paths Joseph states in his own words because I think it is critical to the point he is making about what he calls the Hero/Journey/Quest of the Left Hand Path of the individual to find and live their own personal myth which is presented in this clip.
