May 2, 2020 at 9:14 pm #72253
That calls for an ever-shifting answer – but here is the one that most recently captures my attention. From Mythic Worlds, Modern Words, p. 286:
Just as people influenced you and played an important role in your life, so you are influencing others and playing an important role in their lives. There is a reciprocal influence, a network of interlocked novels. Who wrote all of these? Schopenhauer says, ‘It’s as though the world were a dream dreamed by a single dreamer in which all the dream characters dreamed you.’
Mind … officially … blownJuly 8, 2020 at 12:12 pm #72290
Here is Joseph Campbell’s quote paraphrasing Nietzsche riffing on a stoic ideal …
“Nietzsche was the one who did the job for me. At a certain moment in his life, the idea came to him of what he called “the love of your fate.” Whatever your fate is, whatever the hell happens, you say, “This is what I need.” It may look like a wreck, but go at it as though it were an opportunity, a challenge. If you bring love to that moment-not discouragement-you will find the strength is there. Any disaster you can survive is an improvement in your character, your stature, and your life. What a privilege! This is when the spontaneity of your own nature will have a chance to flow.“
‘The Stoics were not only familiar with this attitude but they embraced it. Two thousand years ago, writing in his own personal journal which would become known as Meditations, Emperor Marcus Aurelius would say: “A blazing fire makes flame and brightness out of everything that is thrown into it.” Another Stoic, Epictetus, who as a crippled slave has faced adversity after adversity, echoed the same: “Do not seek for things to happen the way you want them to; rather, wish that what happens happen the way it happens: then you will be happy.”‘
These concepts Drag on on on on on on . Always getting translated into colloquial vernaculars . They are placed in new skins as old skins are shed . Each incarnation is a scale on the Great Dragon …July 8, 2020 at 3:41 pm #72289
Stephen; this is a great topic to draw from; and I particularly like the one you started off with. It goes deep and really makes one think about the larger dance of the life we are all participating in; so to speak. Like the one about the metaphor he uses of “Standing on the corner waiting for the light to change and seeing images of: “Beauty and the Beast” or any number of others in interplay; sometimes changing partners with each other as we too are also a part of this eternal dance as well.
Robert; that is a tremendous compliment quote of Nietzsche’s to Stephen’s quote that Joseph used of Schopenhauer’s. There is another one of Schopenhauer’s that Joseph used in: “Pathways to Bliss”; on page:112; that I also like that has to do with one’s: (personal myth):
“In a wonderful essay called: “On an Apparent Intention in the Fate of the Individual”, Schopenhauer points out that, once you have reached an advanced age, as I have, you look back over your life, it can seem to have had a plot, as though composed by a novelist. Events that seem entirely accidental or incidental turn out to have been central in the composition.
So who composed that plot? Schopenhauer’s idea is that, just like our dreams, our lives are directed by what he called the will, that self of which we are largely unconscious. We have been, he says, dreamers of our own lives, like Visnu on his seven-headed serpent.”
(Btw Robert; your quote is a particular favorite of mine as well but I have forgotten where it came from. I went looking for it awhile back and couldn’t find it. Would you mind sharing it’s source and page?)July 8, 2020 at 4:11 pm #72288
As an aside addition to the above conversation I would like to express my very deep appreciation to Robert and Stephen and those of you who in your efforts have been trying to get these new Forums off the ground. These efforts mean so very much and to “ANY” of you reading these posts your help and engagement would mean a great deal in this early stage. No; this is not: “Facebook”; and we could sure use your help in participating in these conversations.
On a separate note but in connection to the addition of this new format I was so thrilled to see the “re-emergence” of the old version of (CoaHO) this morning with a stunning brand new make-over. (Mark; thank you so very much for all your hard efforts in making this happen; it’s just beautiful.) For those not familiar with this feature look to your left on this page and you will see the: “Visit the CoaHO Archives” button: (just click on it and it will take you there).July 8, 2020 at 4:16 pm #72287
Joseph Campbell Companion, (p. 38)
This is a great tool at our fingertips. Google will take you anywhere …
Welcome to the machine !!! At our core our origin is in the Cloud !!!July 8, 2020 at 5:02 pm #72286
Robert; thank you so much for that information; I just couldn’t remember the source where it was taken from; and the surrounding context I was able to draw from your reply location added even more information and background to it’s significance. (Two pages of text from a source is a lot to include in a post; especially for those using a smartphone to type posts with; so I’ll just add this is an important reason why we reference: “quote location” in these discussions for anyone wanting to look them up.)
For me the difficulty is always condensing an idea I’m trying to express without having to include too much background on it; while still keeping my original thoughts I’m trying to get across intact. But this is also part of problem that comes with the territory in crossing or combing these various communication formats. And like you mention about: “Google”; although it can make your life simpler; in this constantly and everchanging technology something will “surely” come along and make things more difficult in trying to cross-pollinate from one format to another. (Windows, Android, Apple; all have difficulties trying to talk to each other with many of these computer related formats. So I guess it’s much like foreign languages trying to keep a handle on being understood properly. (Like you said: “Welcome to the machine”; lol.)July 8, 2020 at 5:46 pm #72285
Somethings are always lost in translation. We can never be sure of the origins of a quote. From where things come and where they go !!! They like us are here now of this we can be sure …July 8, 2020 at 7:33 pm #72284
Although my post concerning your source was basically about tracking a quote back to it’s origin; I began to wander off topic relating this subject to technology. Topics can often be like sheep and have a tendency to wander off somewhere else than where the originator had intended. (And although this can be quite fun; it also can sometimes create problems and evolve into frustration for others involved in the discussion.) As a matter of fact moderators on the old format use to have to keep a watchful eye over posts to keep them on course. A lot of merriment was had as well as occasional misunderstandings that were often products concerning some of this sheepherding; which can be different than cat-herding because cats are totally independent. lol
So back to where we left off so as not to divert what we are discussing relating to Stephen’s topic; and drift into a (Laural and Hardy’s): “who’s on 3rd” conversation; yes; I certainly agree with your premise! But in relationship to both: Stephen’s and your quotes combined with mine in keeping on track; the: “net-of-gems” metaphor was one I seem to remember Joseph used; but I’m not sure about this since; yes; as you stated; origins can sometimes be a tricky thing to assume.
(I should probably mention a word of caution about the old CoaHO; it was full of occasional seizures of whimsy; and participants were known to sometimes hi-jack threads causing all kinds of silly mischief. So now that you’ve been warned; we can return to our regularly scheduled programing. That place like where things come from and go to you were just mentioning.)
Dorothy’s return from her: “Wizard of Oz Adventure”; is a metaphor; the Star Wars Adventure as a motif of the Hero’s Journey is one Joseph loved; but transformation I think is the main theme in many of these situations since they refer to one’s life quest to find themselves over a lifetime and the realizations that happen along the way.July 9, 2020 at 11:48 am #72283
just following the threads in and out of the literary labyrinth … Lots of fun !!!
“JOSEPH CAMPBELL: We have not even to risk the adventure alone, for the heroes of all time have gone before us. The labyrinth is thoroughly known; we have only to follow the thread of the hero path. And where we had thought to find an abomination, we shall find a god.“July 10, 2020 at 6:34 pm #72282
Robert and James,
Sorry for being awol of late. It’s been a brutal week, with life throwing up lots of roadblocks – including a possible coronavirus exposure following an outbreak in the department across the hall in the building where my wife works, and now one of her coworkers in her office is sick with Covid; we’re on Day 4 awaiting results from our tests, which does a bit of a number on your head (back in March and April spring allergies regularly had me convinced I had Covid on an almost daily basis; waiting for notification, that dynamic is intensified many times over – given the expanded list of symptoms we know of today, at some point in the course of every day my imagination gets the better of me). I find myself wondering if I should be putting my affairs in order, or counting on a last minute reprieve from the governor . . .
which brings home the quote you cite from Power of Myth, Robert:
Nietzsche was the one who did the job for me. At a certain moment in his life, the idea came to him of what he called ‘the love of your fate.’ Whatever your fate is, whatever the hell happens, you say, ‘This is what I need.’ It may look like a wreck, but go at it as though it were an opportunity, a challenge. If you bring love to that moment-not discouragement-you will find the strength is there. Any disaster you can survive is an improvement in your character, your stature, and your life. What a privilege! This is when the spontaneity of your own nature will have a chance to flow.”
I have to admit this is easier said than done when facing one’s own mortality – but I do take comfort in these words. Well or ill, live or die, “this is what I need” . . .July 10, 2020 at 9:00 pm #72281
Stephen; your powerful, personally poignant insights expresses volumes on these topics; and we will all be thinking of you and your family in the coming days ahead. This virus is like nothing in modern times we have ever experienced; and you bring up a number of concerns many of us are becoming more and more aware of as we move ahead. Not only do the above variations throughout this topic include what you mentioned about: “love of your fate” apply that illustrate this: “burning point of life” that we engage in this eternal dance that history informs us of; but our awareness of life’s fragility and why it is important that we go inside as well as participate outside in understanding our place in it and our interconnection with all life in this: “net-of-gems” experience in our brief moment of time that he expresses so movingly.
Joseph mentions that it is the: “experience of life” that we are seeking; not it’s meaning. And that: “joyful participation in the sorrows of the world” is one way we come to know it’s deeper dimensions; and to find and live our “bliss” that informs us of who we are and fulfills and gives depth as we evolve. Finding our deepest parts and living them often presents a “mystery element” that we are riding on that Joseph often refers as expressed constantly through myth. Religion is one manifestation of this relationship; (but) he also illustrates it is the understanding of what a: “personal myth” represents as the motif of regarding the Journey that the Hero must take to bring it to fruition.
My sister called me recently; and these last two days we have been in deep discussion in a depth not otherwise available to both us beforehand of what many of these issues we have dealt with over course of our lifetime; (the travails and heartaches, as well as the triumphs our family has endured); have meant for both of us in where we are now. Stephen’s post expresses these insights in a very helpful and meaningful way.July 10, 2020 at 11:10 pm #72280
Our thoughts and prayers are with you and all during this time of uncertainty. We all have much reckoning to do … may you stay safe and healthy …
RobertJuly 17, 2020 at 5:10 pm #72279
Thanks Robert, and James, for your kind words and your concern. It took 9 days to get results (after having to schedule the test four days in advance because our county is so overwhelmed), but the good news is that my wife and I both tested negative. Ironically, that’s just one day short of the official incubation period . . .
(That lag in time seems the battle before us in so many places across the United States. If it takes more than three days to find out if one has the virus, the odds of those who are positive infecting others increases exponentially – and I can attest that the uncertainty weighs on one’s mind while waiting.)July 18, 2020 at 12:54 pm #72278
Hey Stephen; sorry I’m a bit late answering this; you and I had already been in touch and as I said then we are “all” so glad about the good news concerning you and your wife’s test results. So as not to take away from your topic on Schopenhauer and Nietzsche’s: “Net-of-Gems” and “Love of Your Fate” themes in relation to this thread I added some Jungian Shadow ideas into the (Breathe) thread so as not to distract from where we left off. (I will say however; that the Pandemic is really starting to dominate public life which makes it somewhat difficult sometimes to get much distance from it as the days and weeks progress.)
For me it has now pretty much integrated into my everyday thoughts about everything since sleep patterns have changed; and pretty much all activities seem to revolve around this crisis. So in some ways I guess one could say” “our love of our fate and life and sense of existence” is beginning to merge into this “new normal”; as it were; especially since time has sort of stopped for many of us since we are forced to be so limited in our movements and the way we must live our lives under these new circumstances. One is constantly challenged to think of new ways to innovate in the things we do and how we go about this business of day to day living; so for me; I’m constantly thinking about the meaning of things in a larger context; not just in the moment.
I try and write a lot when I’m not taking care of life maintenance chores; so this gives me an outlet for these kinds of things; which for me is a great release. Still; I have to admit there are times when things seem so far away from a reachable conclusion to this virus situation that I find myself feeling a bit blue about it all; but I guess that’s to be expected and that’s the challenge it seems to how we extract the important insights we have to struggle through; (if that makes sense). Although every now and then I see someone else who has it really tough; and then my problems don’t seem quite so bad. I’m just glad you’re okay and things in your world are looking better since the good news; and returning to the usual things that need attending to; “welcome back”.July 18, 2020 at 9:44 pm #72277
What you are going through strikes a chord. Sort of feels as if we have moved from Schopenhauer’s “It’s as though the world were a dream dreamed by a single dreamer in which all the dream characters dreamed you” to James Joyce’s line from Ulysses: “History is a nightmare from which I’m trying to awake.”
Of course, the two aren’t mutually exclusive – and the “now” definitely has that dreamlike, nightmarish quality – something we’re all experiencing together, which seems to amplify the experience manyfold. There is no doubt we are living through a significant historical moment: 2020 will be long remembered as a crucial year and a major turning point – but turning to what?
Stay tuned . . .
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