Reply To: The Principle of Honor: A Poor Substitute . . . ” with Craig Deininger, Ph.D.”
What a wonderful articulate response!
As for the sun bug handle, the Egyptian scarab god goes well with it…there is definitely a beetle connection but one more with an A heh heh. But that also includes a “sun song.” And yes the sun itself.
I agree we all worry about what the neighbors think. Comes with the human territory. And we try to do our best in life and hitting the ball to first base is a worthy accomplishment. Love the baseball metaphors. My Mother loved baseball.
Now I’m feeling contradictions too.
I teach dance and it sometimes takes time especially when coaching a student in ballet or (tap my forte) for those outside-in principles to kick-in: how one should carry the body or present the form or tune into the rhythm of the steps.
But at a certain point it becomes rooted in the body-mind so deeply, that it becomes second nature. Then the dancer just dances, performs making almost subconscious adjustments for technique. And can be in the joy and moment of that!
Though in tap the rhythm stays forefront even if doing a ballet tap. Ok that’s a wander off the trail.
But back to the “neighbors…”
Don’t know if a disclaimer is needed because you definitely picked up my intent and expression.
The hardest road now in mythology and perhaps exactly because it is “messy,” is broadbrushing and knee jerk.
My inner Parzival can’t help doing an internal knee jerk at broadbrushing.
That is why forums like this one are so very refreshing.:-)
The experience of Myth is about looking deeper below the surface, while at the same time being wise enough to not look the basilisk in the eye.
And I meant to mention something in response to your responses to Stephen and Jamesn.
You kept referencing experiencing the myth or stories “as is” or “concretely.”
But unless I’m wrong…it reminds me of what Campbell said about the Greek plays. He was quoting someone else…but the idea was that the audience while watching the play “held a suspension of disbelief,” ie they for the time of the play they are “engaged with it” and are experiencing it as is.”
To me that’s the impression I have when you are speaking of reading a myth “as is” or “concretely!”
It is also like all the initiations where the individual goes through literal crawling through the cave even though it’s a metaphor for rebirth or transformation.
It’s interesting the way you don’t completely dump the ego at least when it’s balanced in confidence rather than inflation or abasement. You suggest That the ego in balance has its place, which just proves that the outside-in opinions affect us all. Heh. It’s a reminder to not be too hard upon ourselves.
This just my opinion but when coming from a deeper or organic knowing or intuition (not hunch of the day intuition but real heart/nature/gut/psyche intuition)
I feel that compassion is inevitable because it is the true nature of most humans when allowed to be. (Unless one is a psychopath)
I’m Not saying that compassion doesn’t come from nurture as well in young children. And that’s a wonderful thing!!
And some would argue that some animals have shown traits of compassion as well.
But the literal fear from surface readers of myth or the individual journey is that the “individual path” can lead to evil and the worst kind of ego.
It seems as though it’s been that way since medieval religions and before.
Non-conformity is always the path of “the sinner.”
But there is contradiction because every one is ok talking about individual career choices. Just don’t be too individual seems to be the message.
I still know there is a place for teamwork…and know it’s important. yet because the world is a messy place and there are narcissists and worse in it, the broadbrush reaction is that individualism leads to narcissism.
This is in complete opposition to the grail quests and the Campbell sort of ethos in which the healing comes by way of Parzival listening to his inner voice and thus opening the horizon making the healing possible.
I think you are right…it becomes very tricky. And one doesn’t have to become a pirate to hear or follow the inner voice. The principle of “do no harm,” still applies.
It’s true that a psychopath can be an individual.
But not all individuals or Parzival’s are psychopaths.
Broadbrushing here seems a bit risky.
Yikes! But carrying on ….
As for “right action,” that conjures another idea…gurus and teachers.
The best teachers are the ones that encourage but also step back letting the individual find his/her/their own path. But I also remember what Campbell said about Gurus sometimes “stamping” their own picture on one’s quest. So the question: is the quest still authentic when that happens?
“Right action” is a good and often necessary principle but when it is asked the fool inside might ask a strange question: “who is the guru or the messenger?” (yes I know supposed to hear the message and not concern oneself with the messenger too much—and messengers often get flak) but perhaps the fool inside wants to look in the guru’s or messengers’ eyes before committing… and that’s where things get even trickier and murky…because part of the commitment to the quest or ideal or action is also “trust.”
If the messenger and message is trusted, then it is a no brainer.
But then what of the intuition?
If the trust is intuited or reasoned…or even expected…?
But if the intuition veers later…oh my are we in trouble…!
At least Parzival had a miraculous 2nd chance…which did the job before he could be held accountable for not being a team player. Though teamwork in music and baseball and others settings is awesome! Firefighters rehabilitaters…the list goes on!
Ok that other stuff…Must be the trickster in me. Sorry about that!
I think what drew me to this Parzival post is that the individual path and the group paths should be in harmony.
Teams are needed but so are scouts on the horizon. The idea of breaking the ground or opening the path or seeing something from a different angle. Or having a new inspiration… Then working together…to realize that…
But to be fair inspiration comes in teams too. Just look at all the wonderful music in the world that came about through collaboration!
Each individual has something to add to the whole.
When in balance then perchance the connection to Universal harmony or Consciousness is greater!
But just as in the past, (just my own perception) the “Group Ideal” seems to be held above and in higher regard than the individual “journey.”
Even the word individual has a growing “bad connotation.” (Because of broad brushing applying bad examples to “throw out the whole bushel of apples.”)
What was it you said: Ah yes applying a generic solution that doesn’t fit the problem or circumstances. Cookie cutter answers are easier but might not be the best. I just find it very sad. Especially as so many on the planet (individuals) in their own unique Parzival-ways opened up the horizon and changed the world bringing new knowledge, insights and healing.
We still need our scouts as well as teams. And casting them out seems unwise. But might depend on definitions: ? Team as Scouts good… Individual/s as Scouts bad?
Too simplistic a reading? Perhaps. Depends on the scouts/teams?
It also depends upon circumstance and motive, innate compassion or greed (or desperation?) and the presence or lack of deeper honor within the individual/s the guru, or the team.
Collaboration…that’s the higher sense now… “everything is a collaboration.” And the individual or the now tainted idea of individualism (which in my opinion is being detrimentally conflated with narcissism) are run into the ground.
A generic definition for specific bad apples.
But collaboration can be beautiful and I sometimes think it happens spontaneously from a less heady area making it even more beautiful.
It’s ironic…when Parzival collaborated with his team he failed, but when he collaborated with his inner knowing, he succeeded which suggests collaboration is not primarily an “outside-in” thing.
But that makes people uncomfortable because because Parzival making a choice separate from the team would normally be deemed as selfish and non-inclusive. But it becomes inclusive because the kingdom is healed. If everyone is patient enough to see that. His decision supported the team.
I also do not think being an individual or following a Parzival path disconnects one from Collective Consciousness or Universal consciousness. Or kindness to others!!
In fact the whole point was for Parzival to be aware!
When he asked the question! And that awoke the compassion!
So it’s both complex and simple. Complex perhaps because pre-conceived ideas have to be thrown out…complex because not everyone is coming to the same intuition and there will be conflict. And the desire to do no harm. But once the bridge is crossed and the question asked…the Aha! Happens.
Perhaps for those who strive or hope on universal consciousness… it might be the same…getting from the point of wanting people to come together to the realization of already being there. And all that’s needed is awareness. We see glimpses of this when music draws people together. And one does not have to be in a group to feel that connection to the Greater Consciousness…they can if they want to be…that’s ok but being an individual is ok too. What did Campbell say about more people going in smaller groups into the forest? In ones, twos and threes etc?
Now I’ve muddled it up! Sorry my apologies to Stephen and Craig and rest of message board. Wandering out on tangents…proves I should save morning or day for writing heh!
So I am going to return to the simplicity and reflect on that because the quiet and simple things are a nice place to be. And sometimes they reveal more.
But what do I know? Sometimes I feel like the hobbits: very small in a wide, wide, world.
Thank you again for your elegant response Craig! And I look forward to reading the other Myth Blast on reflection.